Gay Marriage: For or Against?

[Twisp]

Originally Posted by coadie

That is why we eat fried chicken. Your animal consent doctrine is a worthless change of subject.


Exhibitionism: the recurrent urge or behavior to expose one's genitals to an unsuspecting person.
Fetishism: the use of non-sexual or nonliving objects or part of a person's body to gain sexual excitement. Partialism refers to fetishes specifically involving nonsexual parts of the body.
Frotteurism: the recurrent urges or behavior of touching or rubbing against a nonconsenting person.
Masochism: the recurrent urge or behavior of wanting to be humiliated, beaten, bound, or otherwise made to suffer.
Pedophilia: the sexual attraction to prepubescent children.
Sadism: the recurrent urge or behavior involving acts in which the pain or humiliation of the victim is sexually exciting.
Transvestic fetishism: a sexual attraction towards the clothing of the opposite gender.
Voyeurism: the recurrent urge or behavior to observe an unsuspecting person who is naked, disrobing or engaging in sexual activities.
Other paraphilias are grouped together under "Other paraphilias not otherwise specified."

Homosexuality was previously listed as a paraphilia in the DSM-I and DSM-II, but this was declassified from both DSM-III and DSM-IV, consistent with the change of attitude among and lobbying by gay Psychiatrists. Gay psychologists have no cure for homosexual behavior.

The DSM IV TR will become even more liberal.

. Paraphilias without DSM codes listed come under DSM 302.9, "Paraphilia NOS (Not Otherwise Specified)".

A 2009 list contains a total of 547 paraphilias, but leads with the statement that "Not all these paraphilias have necessarily been seen in clinical setups.

A good reason to take homosexuality off the mental illness list means a gay can't get counseling for gay issues and have it covered by insurance.

But the study you referenced gathered that homosexuality had a biological basis. I assume you agree, since you are arguing based on that study?

[iceniez]

Originally Posted by Twisp

But the study you referenced gathered that homosexuality had a biological basis. I assume you agree, since you are arguing based on that study?

I agree that homosexuality has a biological basis , We all are born in sinful flesh. Born to sin and in sin. SIN IS SIN ,and it is a SIN.

[DAII]

Originally Posted by coadie

Good point. You didn't read the study. The data came from the Netherlands which had 13 years of gay marriage. Pro Gay libs don't do well with studies that don't support the deeds.

Genesis 13:13
But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly.
unleavened bread, and they did eat.

4But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:

5And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

6And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,

7And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.

Looks like Lot knows that knowing them was doing wickedly. sex with males.


Always toss out the Homophobia accusation.
People seem to make stuff up and accuse of phobias.

More poor hermeneutic ... from the theocrat.
Genesis 19:1-4:

And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground; And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night. And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat. But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:

Who came to see the messengers of God? The men, the young men, the old men, "all the people from every quarter." What does this say about this town? Were ALL of the males in the city homosexual? They ALL were here at Lot's front door, weren't they.

Genesis 19:5:

And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

There's that word again, "know." There is no Old Testament text where "yadah" refers to homosexual sex! The only passage ever quoted is THIS one. The less ambiguous word "shakhabh" is used for heterosexual intercourse as well as homosexual intercourse and beastial intercourse. "Shakhabh" appears fifty times in the Old Testament. If it had been used in this passage, the real meaning would have been clear. As it is, there are NO grounds for assuming that God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because of homosexuality. If the story is taken in context and in light of the other passages, it is easier to understand. Because "yadah" is a word of aquaintance, some have suggested that a serious breach of hospitality was implied. That is certainly to be taken into consideration.

Back to the story: Lot offered his two daughters instead. Women were looked upon as far inferior to men. Lot was trying to pacify the group and considered the two visitors more important than his own beautiful daughters.

Genesis 19:6-13:

And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof. And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door. And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place: For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.
The men only wanted to get to the strangers. But, the angels blinded them and they were lost. The angels got Lot and his family out and the city was destroyed.

http://www.whosoever.org/v2i3/sodom.htm

[DAII]

Our major question in this study is why was Sodom destroyed? If the Bible interprets itself, what does the Bible say about Sodom and Gomorrah? Let's look first at Ezekiel.

Ezekiel 16:49-50:

Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

What reasons does this passage give about Sodom? They were proud and arrogant. They had fulness of bread, in other words they were self-indulgent. Abundance of idleness - they were lazy. They assumed NO responsibility for poor people, they had no social conscience. They were haughty - "stuck-up" with an attitude of superiority, arrogant. They committed "abomination" before God ("to'ebah," something disgusting, especially idolatry.) Abomination included such things as eating shrimp or catfish, and having sex while the wife was having her period. A disobedient child was an abomination to God and was supposed to be stoned to death! The list goes on forever.

What was God's attitude?

Isaiah 1:9-10:

Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah. Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
God does not want "things"

Isaiah 1:11:

To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
God does not want you to bring special things to him...

Isaiah 1:13a:

Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me;
(Incense is an abomination??? Somebody better tell the Catholics!)

Isaiah 1:13b:

...the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
Isaiah 1:14:

Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
Keeping special days or going to church makes God "weary." Actions alone, in place of loving God, are what are displeasing to God.

Jeremiah 23:10:

For the land is full of adulterers; for because of swearing the land mourneth; the pleasant places of the wilderness are dried up, and their course is evil, and their force is not right.
How do the Samaritans resemble the people of Sodom and Gomarrah? They are adulterers (specific sexuality immorality.) They have so little integrity that the country is falling apart. They have NO interest in following God, or trying to do His will.

Jeremiah 23:11:

For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the LORD.
The preachers and prophets have contempt towards God. Their speech and actions are Godless, secular.

Jeremiah 23:13:

And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria; they prophesied in Baal, and caused my people Israel to err.
The Samariatan preachers not only are spreading FALSE, misleading doctrine but, they are teaching this to OTHERS and leading people astray.

Jeremiah 23:14:

I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness; they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.
They committed adultry, again specific sexuality immorality, and were liars and decievers. They supported and gave legitimacy to the godless ones, those who had no place in their heart for God. God says that THIS is how they remind them of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Jeremiah 23:16:

Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.
They developed their own self-serving religion and spoke as if THEY were the Lord God.

You will notice that the above passages make a strong statement about these cities, comparing them with the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. Where was homosexuality mentioned? Where? How many times was adultry specifically mentioned?

[DAII]

In the cultures of the Old Testament the laws of hospitality were something not to be taken lightly. Cities were usually enclosed and strangers who wandered in were not always welcomed. The story in Judges 19 describes an incident very similar to the Sodom and Gomorrah story. The Benjamites had grown cold and hard-hearted over the years and were not open to entertain a stranger in distress. They were called the "sons of Belial," children of the devil, ungovenable, untamable.

A wandering Levite, with his wife and servant, found himself stranded in the city, having to sleep in the dangerous street all night. However, there was one old man who had not lost all of his compassion and whom invited them in. The men of the city made a rude, disrespectful assult on the house of this man and demanded to see the people inside.

Judges 19:16-22:

And, behold, there came an old man from his work out of the field at even, which was also of mount Ephraim; and he sojourned in Gibeah: but the men of the place were Benjamites. And when he had lifted up his eyes, he saw a wayfaring man in the street of the city: and the old man said, Whither goest thou? and whence comest thou? And he said unto him, We are passing from Bethlehemjudah toward the side of mount Ephraim; from thence am I: and I went to Bethlehemjudah, but I am now going to the house of the LORD; and there is no man that receiveth me to house. Yet there is both straw and provender for our asses; and there is bread and wine also for me, and for thy handmaid, and for the young man which is with thy servants: there is no want of any thing. And the old man said, Peace be with thee; howsoever let all thy wants lie upon me; only lodge not in the street. So he brought him into his house, and gave provender unto the asses: and they washed their feet, and did eat and drink. Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him.
The old man offered his virgin daughter and his wife to the mob.

Judges 19:23-24:

And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly. Judges 19:24 Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing.
They took his wife and they "knew" her. The Hebrew word is "yadah," to acknowledge, to become aquainted with, to comprehend, to learn, to know. "Yadah" appears by itself no less than 943 times in a nonsexual connotation. The word is used ten places in the old testament to denote heterosexual intercourse. It is used five times inconjunction with "mishkabh" to mean the same thing. I repeat, "Yadah" appears by itself no less than 943 times in a nonsexual connotation.

Judges 19:25-28:

But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go. Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord was, till it was light. And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold. And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place.
The men assulted her, violently raped her (heterosexual rape) and left her for dead. Are we to conclude from this passage that heterosexual sex is a sin, an abomination to God? What a ludicrous thought. Of course not!

The issue isn't sex...the issue is violence with the phallus as the weapon of choice.

With these things in mind, let's look at Genesis 19. God sent two messengers to visit Lot, who welcomed them at the gate of the city. They went to Lot's house where they were treated as guests. Then the word got out that unwanted strangers were in town.

http://www.whosoever.org/v2i3/sodom.html

[DAII]

Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

From God's MOUTH .... not Coadie's

God is disgusted by a nation and a Church that has abundance but is self-absorbed and often disregards the needy.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by DAII

Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

From God's MOUTH .... not Coadie's

God is disgusted by a nation that has but is self-absorbed and often disregards the needy.

Not just a nation, but His church. A church that is happy with their four and no more should shudder when reading these passages.

[DAII]

Coadie, choose to harp on your pet sin ... and continue to lead the Church on this rabid rabbit trail against this one sin with your pitchforks and torches after the Monster ... while God's disgust continues even after your roast.

You do it well, arrogantly and pridefully.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by coadie

It is an abomination
It is sin.
The Judeo Christian legal system goes back to a transcendent moral code for a foundation.

2 parts that intrude on free religion is the endeaver by gays to force pastors to marry them in churches that oppose it and also punish preechers that preach the bible on sodomy.

My friend Tom was denied marriage by the Catholic Church because he was previously divorced. No law in the land can "force" a church to marry anyone. So that's a myth.

Yes, we might face some issues with regards to them trying to punish preachers who preach against their lifestyle. However, we have two choices here. We can spend resources and time fighting their freedom to live as they choose in a free country... or we can spend our resources and time fighting for our freedom of religion and freedom of speech. You see... if a local court were to ban or bring a preacher up on charges for preaching against homesexuality, it would be big news. Civil rights leaders across the country would clash. The issue of freedom of speech and freedom of religion would be the issue... not gay marriage. I don't see the SCOTUS ruling against freedom of speech and freedom of religion in the United States any time soon. And then you know what??? Even if they banned preaching against this lifestyle.... we PREACH ANYWAY. The fervor this would create across the country would be estounding. What are they going to do? Close every conservative church in America??? We seem to be so frightened to take a stand for our rights. So frightened... we'll fight to deprive others of their rights. We are not of this world. Let the world decide what it chooses to do to ensure liberty for all. We preach the truth of the Bible... NO MATTER WHAT. Bring it on!

I would like to see a nation where freedom prevails. Freedom is HOLY even if men choose to use that freedom to commit sin.

We have very large Islamic associations meeting to consolidate an Islamic voting block in the United States. Their goal is to "Islamicize" the United States by using our own democracy against us. These individuals want to codify Islamic Law here in the West by establishing Shariah courts. It's already been suggested by top Islamic political hacks in the US. If we continue to push religious political agendas, soon we are going to see a massive Islamic political agenda. When we cry, "Hey, you can't make Islamic teachings law!" The answer will be, "Well, you've made Christian teaching law. Beat us at the voting booth." So right now is a very important time. We need to take a stand for LIBERTY and JUSTICE for ALL. That includes sinners of every stripe. We protect our rights and freedoms by protecting the rights and freedoms of all... including sinners.

We have to protect everyone... not just our own self serving convictions, no matter how biblical. This is a spiritual war that I don't think many realize we're even beginning to fight. But it's very real and it's already on our doorsteps.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by DAII

Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

From God's MOUTH .... not Coadie's

God is disgusted by a nation and a Church that has abundance but is self-absorbed and often disregards the needy.

While you rag on the US, we provide by far the MOST aid to the needy in the world, no matter the crisis, no matter where in the world you will find the USA and Christians to be the very first on the scene with manpower and open wallets to rescue the needy. Your ragging sounds like the mayor of New Orleans screaming at Washington while he had 2000 buses setting idle at his disposal!!!! Fools in city hall and in the state house is the most pressing danger to this country and the world.