Obama For Mosque at Ground Zero

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I know Europe would have no question as to rather to allow a Museum honoring the life, contributions, and philosophy of Hitler to be built on the site of a German death camp.

We've become so soft and stupid.

Failed logical argument, Aquila.

All of Islam and those who represent the Muslim faith aren't indicted as an individual, Hitler.

Ludicrous to suggest that.

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I'm not wanting a religious war with all Muslims. But Islamic extremists have declared war against us. All forms of extrem Islam within the United States should be treated heavy handedly. I'd support policies that would force moderates to the surface to denounce the extremists. What policies would do that is up for debate.

That's not Constitutional. That's McCarthyism in a different mask.

You've already so much have said that there is no distinction between moderates and extremists. So don't back pedal. Just say it: you want a war on Islam.

You want signed promises that they don't hate America? That they disagree with terrorism or else they are kicked out?

Think about the state you are creating. I'm with you on keeping tabs on radicals, and anyone having concrete, financial or personel support to terrorists should be dealt with (I believe that's already a currently enforced law).

[canam]

Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but to add further salt in the wound, the Port Authority of NY and NJ after offering to help re build the only church destroyed by the homicidal pilots of those two planes, has cut off all contact with the greek orthodox church, that was flattened buy one of the towers , they have been trying for almost a decade to rebuild, meanwhile this debacle was fast tracked!! unbelievable !!

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

You don't mean "radical Islam" you mean "Islam." We've already established that. You dont' see a difference. So quit saying "radical" and start saying what you are really saying "Islam."

Maybe you’re misunderstanding me because of my concern. I don’t believe that the Antichrist will be a European. I believe he’ll be Arab (perhaps from Syria). I also believe he’ll use Islam as a vehicle for his global religious agenda. Over 1.6 billion Muslims are praying for the al-Mahdi to appear. The Quran and the Hadiths describes the final war, led by the al-Mahdi, against all infidels to establish a global Caliphate as a blood bath. They believe that their al-Mahdi will make a 7 year peace agreement with a Levite and that half way through the Jews will break the treaty, provoking their own destruction at the hands of the al-Mahdi. Essentially what they believe about their al-Mahdi and what he will do is a mirror image of what Christianity teaches regarding the final Antichrist. So, I will admit, I’m probably more vocally opposed to Islam than most. I believe that ultimately it will be a showdown between the “seeds”: the “seed of Abraham” through Isaac (Jesus Christ) and the “seed of Abraham” through Ishmael (the al-Mahdi). It’s all about who has the covenantal birthright to rule the world from Jerusalem. My opinion comes from a comparative study between Christian Eschatology and Islamic Eschatology.

The justification of your zoning ideas are unconstitutional. There's no way around that. This particular area is not in a zone where a religious center is an issue -- as a matter of fact, there are Christian churches within a 1 mile radius.

My point is that you can’t build a porn store near a church or school, or vice versa. We can zone the 9/11 site in a manner that would prevent the building of any religious building within so many feet of the site. Previously existing buildings exempted.

Oh, and if you do this, please don't do it in the name of Christ. I beg you. Just be an emotionally and ignorant redneck, but please don't you or your like-minded cronies hijack Jesus in the middle of it. We've already seen the destruction that has done in history.

Please don’t call names bro. I’m just sharing an opinion. I’m speaking more as a concerned American than for “Christianity”.

[Jermyn Davidson]

I do think it is interesting that a President who is accused of secretly trying to take away rights from average Americans, a President who is accused of being socialist and even communist, decided to stand on the side of freedom and equality-- despite how unpopular he had to know his stance would be.

I don't agree with him, but he presents intestinal fortitude in this situation.

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

I do think it is interesting that a President who is accused of secretly trying to take away rights from average Americans, a President who is accused of being socialist and even communist, decided to stand on the side of freedom and equality-- despite how unpopular he had to know his stance would be.

I don't agree with him, but he presents intestinal fortitude in this situation.

I think the just criticism in this case is that he could have just avoided comment, letting the State of New York deal with this.

If he had to make a comment, his words about the legality of the issue are accurate. Whether it was back-peddaling or not, his follow-up comments about the "wisdom of the situation" are also well said.

He errored by commenting on the topic. I would assume his silence would be taken advantage by his enemies either way.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Aquila

It's not the only criteria. Islamic escatology is rather expansive... just like Christian escatology.

I was just trying to give you a little "pick me up", Bro.

Ain't it cool to know that you're a descendant of the Prophet Mohammad?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Rush made a good point today, although, I think he was quoting someone else. I didn't catch the name.

He said that a CNN poll is saying that 27% of Americans do not believe that Obama was born in the US. BTW, that is up from 11% last year.

He also said a CNN poll says that 29% of Americans want to have the NYC mosque built.

Soooooo, if you call the birthers kooks (27%), why not call the ones that want the mosque built (29%) kooks also? The percentage are so close - why not?

That's a good point.

BTW, I am convince BHO was born in Honolulu, HI, in 1960, just like his released birth certificate says. HOWEVER! If I were ever polled about the issue I would purposely answer with the "kooks" just to tweek noses in DC.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

It is for me.

But the idealogy I'm encountering on AFF and other social settings is not one of logically explaining a position. It is "Muslims are evil. Muslims should be kicked out of the country. Muslims should not have terror camps next to 9/11." That's literally the non-sense I'm hearing. Even with those who attempt to articulate, their prejudices and phobias are glaring.

Level-headed, pragmatic, sincere.... what happened to those sort of Conservatives?

At the end of the day, I for one am not suggesting that this Mosque is a good idea. I know that something can be a right but not the right thing. In looking at the characters at play here, I see how this is that much more provocative. What I'm not is on a Crusade against Muslims. I still believe in the rule of law.

Originally Posted by Ferd

I dont have any real problem with your logic here. My initial reaction was to side with the ideal of FREEDOM of religion. The more i look at the issue, the less it is about that and the more it is about this particular group is RADICAL.

We do have a problem with a lot of people just going the "all muslims are evil" direction. we gotta get past that.

But at the same time, we have to take some long hard looks at those who want to do provocative things like this.

The Muslim Brotherhood is after Sharia Law in America and they fully intend to use our liberty and openness against us to get what they want.

I agree with Ferdando on this one. It's not like there are American Muslims in Manhattan with no mosque of their own. AND, it's not as if American Muslims are even behind the building of this mosque.

IN FACT, there is so little support for this mosque in the American Muslim community that Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf has had to go back to his native Kuwait to raise funds. Why no appeal to American Muslims for funds?

Consider this disclaimer on the website of a mosque that is already located in lower Manhattan:

"DISCLAIMER:
Please be advised that we are by no means affiliated with any other organization trying to build anything new in the area of downtown Manhattan.

Since 1970, Masjid Manhattan has been a peaceful, not-for-profit organization located in the area of downtown Manhattan. Our members are City, State and Federal employees, as well as professional employees of the Financial area who come to our Masjid to perform their daily prayers.

Masjid Manhattan and its members condemn any type of terrorist acts. In particular, the attacks of 9/11 where non-Muslims as well as Muslims lost their lives. Islam always invites for peace; therefore Islam is not responsible for the actions of some ill individuals who, independently from what Islam advocates, have hatred against humanity. As Muslims and as Americans, we will never forget the beloved ones who perished that terrible day of September 11, 2001."

http://www.masjidmanhattan.com/

American Muslims don't even like this idea.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

I think the just criticism in this case is that he could have just avoided comment, letting the State of New York deal with this.

If he had to make a comment, his words about the legality of the issue are accurate. Whether it was back-peddaling or not, his follow-up comments about the "wisdom of the situation" are also well said.

He errored by commenting on the topic. I would assume his silence would be taken advantage by his enemies either way.

The President of the United States usually will stay above local zoning arguments. The local people are often the best ones to decide these types of issues.

However, this particular issue does touch a national nerve. The President's gaffe here was that he didn't have his teleprompter when he made the initial statement at the dinner. Bad move. This guy needs the teleprompter like no one else has ever needed one.