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  #51  
Old 06-21-2010, 12:43 PM
deacon blues deacon blues is offline
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Re: The Great Republican Hope

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Originally Posted by MikeinAR View Post
Interesting thoughts, Tim. I have no idea what will happen in 2012. A lot of responsibility comes with running a government from top to bottom. Voter's are going to expect results and will want tangible things on the economy that they can see and feel. The problem with that is that there isn't a single economist who can really tell us what the next move is or where a real bottom is. It's hard to fix a problem when you're not sure exactly the paramters of it. Maybe the economy goes down from here. I haven't found many that will say they feel like we've hit the bottom.

Now, if BO can end Iraq and get us out of that mistake, then maybe that'll buy him some time on other issues, but right now he's banking on a very shaky economy, IMO. I'd say his popularity in '12 is anything but certain.

Bobby Jindal is very talented and will be a fun guy to watch ascend. Of course, who knows what the Republican party will look like in 4 years. They are going to have decide what they really stand for and where they go from here. The base of religious voters isn't going to win elections from now on. They can mail that strategy in. It barely worked in 2004, and it worked by 500 votes in 2000. They're going to have re-evaluate how they win elections other than pandering to evangelicals, because that isn't producing great results for them.
The biggest mistake the GOP can make is take religious right voters for granted. Anyone running as a moderate in the GOP loses: Ford, Dole, MCain. Solid conservatives win: Reagan, Bush I, Bush II. The GOP can't win without religious conservatives. When someone runs as a fiscal conservative, especially in this environment, along with conservative social values, they win. Bush I lost to Clinton because of his tax increase. Y'all just don't like the fact that most conservative Christians vote GOP so you try to make them look like the problem with the party versus what's right with it.
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  #52  
Old 06-21-2010, 12:57 PM
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Re: The Great Republican Hope

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Originally Posted by deacon blues View Post
The biggest mistake the GOP can make is take religious right voters for granted. Anyone running as a moderate in the GOP loses: Ford, Dole, MCain. Solid conservatives win: Reagan, Bush I, Bush II. The GOP can't win without religious conservatives. When someone runs as a fiscal conservative, especially in this environment, along with conservative social values, they win. Bush I lost to Clinton because of his tax increase. Y'all just don't like the fact that most conservative Christians vote GOP so you try to make them look like the problem with the party versus what's right with it.
Exactly! Mike Pence's latest statement:

"To win back America we must recognize that our present crisis is not merely economic and political, but moral in nature. People in positions of authority have walked away from timeless truths... We will not restore this nation with public policy alone. It will require public virtue that emanates from our traditional values of life, family and faith."

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  #53  
Old 06-21-2010, 01:02 PM
Jeffrey Jeffrey is offline
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Re: The Great Republican Hope

Are we ready for doing away with 2-party majorities yet?
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  #54  
Old 06-21-2010, 01:03 PM
Jeffrey Jeffrey is offline
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Re: The Great Republican Hope

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Originally Posted by deacon blues View Post
The biggest mistake the GOP can make is take religious right voters for granted. Anyone running as a moderate in the GOP loses: Ford, Dole, MCain. Solid conservatives win: Reagan, Bush I, Bush II. The GOP can't win without religious conservatives. When someone runs as a fiscal conservative, especially in this environment, along with conservative social values, they win. Bush I lost to Clinton because of his tax increase. Y'all just don't like the fact that most conservative Christians vote GOP so you try to make them look like the problem with the party versus what's right with it.
Let's face it, the majority of these voters vote based on "wedge" issues. It's the same way Dems appeal to minority voters.
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  #55  
Old 06-21-2010, 01:07 PM
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Re: The Great Republican Hope

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Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
Are we ready for doing away with 2-party majorities yet?
No. I'm not. The planks in the Republican Party are good. We need to get back to them, if we can. But, as Mike Pence says, it's more a moral issue than political. If we can't work on the moral issues, which are individual issues, I don't see how any party will lead honorably.
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  #56  
Old 06-21-2010, 01:15 PM
deacon blues deacon blues is offline
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Re: The Great Republican Hope

Paul Ryan is my choice for 2012. I think it would be a huge mistake to wait until 2016. The damage an 8-year Obama administration will do to our economy will not be sustainable. We're $13 trillion in debt, will be $19 trillion by 2015. Any reasonable candidate that runs on a platform of massive spending cuts, lower taxes for everyone, smaller govt and smart economic policies that encourage business, job creation and competition will win in a landslide against these social experimentors in the White House.
__________________

‎When a newspaper posed the question, "What's Wrong with the World?" G. K. Chesterton reputedly wrote a brief letter in response: "Dear Sirs: I am. Sincerely Yours, G. K. Chesterton." That is the attitude of someone who has grasped the message of Jesus.
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  #57  
Old 06-21-2010, 01:19 PM
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Re: The Great Republican Hope

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Originally Posted by timlan2057 View Post
... but for 2012?

I don't think so.

Now, Obama could fall on his face but really, the economy has nowhere to go but up.

I think Barack Obama will be as unbeatable in 2012 as John F. Kennedy would have been in 1964.

If the Republican National Committee is smart (I wonder) and if Jindal is smart (I believe he is) then the GOP will save their up and coming shining star for 2016.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_pl147
The economy has nowhere to go but up? I definately disagree with that. They are printing trillions of dollars to stave off deflation. That means pretty much one thing....inflation.

Baby boomers are retiring left and right that means the cost of health care and social security are going to go through the roof while they are pulling their money out of their 401k's to live on which means the stock market is going to go down.

The second mortgage wave for alt a's and options arm's has yet to come through not to mention the commercial real estate crises. Hold on to your hat. I'm afeared we are headed for a double dip.
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Last edited by ILG; 06-21-2010 at 01:22 PM.
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  #58  
Old 06-21-2010, 01:25 PM
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Re: The Great Republican Hope

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Originally Posted by deacon blues View Post
Paul Ryan is my choice for 2012. I think it would be a huge mistake to wait until 2016. The damage an 8-year Obama administration will do to our economy will not be sustainable. We're $13 trillion in debt, will be $19 trillion by 2015. Any reasonable candidate that runs on a platform of massive spending cuts, lower taxes for everyone, smaller govt and smart economic policies that encourage business, job creation and competition will win in a landslide against these social experimentors in the White House.


He and Mike Pence are my choices.

If Paul Ryan ran for President, who would you pick as his VP, Deacon?
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  #59  
Old 06-21-2010, 01:26 PM
Jeffrey Jeffrey is offline
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Re: The Great Republican Hope

Deacon on what is a Morality Ticket. I love it!
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  #60  
Old 06-21-2010, 01:33 PM
Light Light is offline
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Re: The Great Republican Hope

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Originally Posted by deacon blues View Post
Paul Ryan is my choice for 2012. I think it would be a huge mistake to wait until 2016. The damage an 8-year Obama administration will do to our economy will not be sustainable. We're $13 trillion in debt, will be $19 trillion by 2015. Any reasonable candidate that runs on a platform of massive spending cuts, lower taxes for everyone, smaller govt and smart economic policies that encourage business, job creation and competition will win in a landslide against these social experimentors in the White House.
I found this to be amazing This was written by a Texas republican

Economic myths:
Republicans are fiscally responsible, Republicans believe in less government spending, and Republicans are better for the economy.

First, some definitions. Political economists often talk about the national debt and the federal deficit. These two terms mean different things. The national debt refers to the accumulation of all the money the US government has borrowed over all the years that we’re still paying back. By contrast, the federal deficit refers to how much money the US government is spending over and above its budget in a single year. So the deficit reverts to zero at the beginning of each fiscal year whereas the national debt does not.

Now let’s take a look at the facts. We’ll start with national debt and raw numbers. In 2000, when Bill Clinton left office, the national debt was $5.7 trillion. Today, after seven years of George W. Bush, it is $9.6 trillion. Bush has almost doubled our national debt in eight short years.

But let’s go further back and take a look at the average increases in national debt by president. It is most useful to look at the national debt as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP). GDP is the total market value of all final goods and services produced within the country in a given period of time (usually a calendar year). Since 1945, there have been seven presidential terms held by Democrats and nine held by Republicans. During every term held by a Democratic president since this time, that president has reduced the national debt as a percentage of GDP. The Roosevelt/Truman administration made the greatest dent with a 24.3% reduction. By contrast, only three terms held by a Republican president since 1945 showed a reduction in the national debt as a percentage of GDP. Further, Eisenhower made the most significant reduction for Republicans at a 10.8% decline between 1953 and 1957. This is less than half the decline made by the Democrats Roosevelt/Truman. Even further, every single Republican president since 1973 (beginning with Nixon/Ford) has increased the national debt as a percentage of GDP. Let’s summarize: Since 1946, Democratic presidents increased the national debt an average of only 3.2% per year. The Republican presidents increased the national debt by an average of 9.7% per year. Republican presidents out-borrowed and out-spent Democratic presidents by a three-to-one ratio. Putting that in very real terms, for every dollar a Democratic president has raised the national debt in the past 59 years, Republican presidents have raised the debt by $2.99.

Looking further at federal spending, we find that between 1978 and 2005, Democrats increased federal spending by 9.9% while Republicans increased federal spending by 12.1%. Further, in the same period, Democrats increased the national debt by 4.2% whereas the Republicans increased it by 36.4%. It is true that the Republicans held 4 terms during this time while Democrats only held 3. However, looking at each president since 1978, we see that Reagan increased the national debt by a whopping 89.2% during his two terms. You read that right, Reagan nearly doubled the national debt in 8 years.

Now, you might say, “Well, but productivity increased more during that spending.” Using GDP as a measure of productivity (which is standard procedure), you’d be dead wrong. During the years 1978 – 2005, the Democrats increased the GDP by 12.6% while the Republicans only increased it by 10.7%. The president responsible for the largest increase in GDP, or the productivity of our country, during this time was Bill Clinton, a Democrat, who increased the GDP by 28.4% during his eight years in office.

Some people argue that GDP is an imperfect measure of productivity. So let’s look at job creation. Of all the presidents since 1933, Bill Clinton has created by far the most jobs. During his tenure, he created 22.7 million jobs, a 4.9% increase. The worst president in terms of job creation is George W. Bush. During his first term, he created only 100,000 jobs, a 0.002% increase. On average, between 1933 and the present day, Republican have increased jobs by 0.21% while Democrats have increased jobs by 3.24%.

(A note about Reagan: All of the economic growth experienced during Reagan’s presidency was subsidized by the federal debt. Our federal debt almost doubled during his presidency. Talk about a big spender! He mortgaged our future, and it is abundantly clear by the widening gap between rich and poor that the policies he enacted, Reaganomics, if you will, are not sustainable.)

We can also get an idea of how “big” government is by looking at the national debt as a percentage of GDP (or, to put it another way, how much the government is spending relative to everyone else). Republicans advocate for small government. They portray the Democrats as people who want big government. Looking at the facts, we see that government spending is biggest when a Republican president is in office. Republicans historically have bigger governments than Democrats. Five out of the eight presidential terms held by Republicans since 1945 have seen an increase in government spending as a percentage of GDP, an increase in the size of the government. Zero of the seven presidential terms held by Democrats since that time have seen an increase in the size of the government. In fact, every single Democratic president since 1945 has reduced the size of the government by reducing the amount of national debt as a percentage of GDP.

Looking at Clinton more closely, we see that he presided over the largest economic expansion on record, the fastest income growth most workers had experienced in a generation, and the disappearance of the federal budget deficit. When he came into office in 1993, the federal budget deficit was $290 billion and was projected to be $455 billion by 2000. Clinton made it his number one goal to reduce the national debt. He did so by raising taxes on the wealthy and cutting taxes for the poor. By the end of his presidency, he had eliminated the federal deficit. In 1999, he recorded a federal budget surplus of $122.7 billion. In 2000, he topped his own record with a federal budget surplus of $230 billion. He also made huge gains in the national debt. In May 2000, he made a $216 billion payment on the federal debt, the largest debt paydown in American history. The federal government’s long-term debt in 2000 was $2.4 trillion lower than it was projected to be when Clinton took office in 1992. In September 2000, he explained that the $5.7 trillion national debt had been reduced by $360 billion in the previous three years. He reduced it by $223 billion in 2000 alone. At the 2000 rate of debt paydown, the US was expected to have paid off its entire debt by 2010.

Now, near the end of George W. Bush’s presidency, our national debt is $9.6 trillion. We owe $5 trillion of that to China, a communist country we don’t like and who doesn’t like us. We have made absolutely zero payments on our national debt since Bush took office. Instead, Bush has nearly doubled our national debt, and he keeps spending. The economy is weaker, the dollar is weaker, and we’re further in debt than we ever have been before. We continue to pay for the war and reconstruction in Iraq despite the fact that the Iraq government has a $79 billion surplus earning interest in banks in New York. This is the epitome of fiscal irresponsibility.

Looking to the future, the spending will continue if John McCain is elected. A quick skim through his website or perusal of the Tax Policy Center’s analysis of both candidates’ policies reveals that McCain’s economic policies are merely continuations of George W. Bush’s policies. A continuation of these policies will utterly ruin our economy. Bush has hurt us exponentially in just eight years. We cannot afford even one more year of his policies, let alone four more.

The bottom line: Republicans are fiscally irresponsible. They spend more and increase the debt more than Democrats. Economies under Republican presidents are, in general, weaker than economies under Democratic presidents. The Bush administration has squandered the gains made by the Clinton administration, and John McCain promises to keep squandering our money.
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