Twitter-TF Tenney at Jentezn Franklin's 2morrow!

[oletime]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

I'm not the one making the accusation. It is quite public though from Oneness ministers. The issue is, they say, he is re-telling their sermons word-for-word almost.

Ive always said the only original thoughts are red lettered, the rest of us are just borrowing,all the way back. Anyone who thinks GOD only gave a particular sermon thought to them and them only in the world is pretty arrogant and stuck on themselves.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

I'm not the one making the accusation. It is quite public though from Oneness ministers. The issue is, they say, he is re-telling their sermons word-for-word almost.

Still what is the problem with this? I am sure this is more common in the UPC ranks than one might think.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by oletime

ive always said the only original thoughts are red lettered, the rest of us are just borrowing,all the way back. Anyone who thinks god only gave a particular sermon thought to them and them only in the world is pretty arrogant and stuck on themselves.

post of the day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by oletime

Ive always said the only original thoughts are red lettered, the rest of us are just borrowing,all the way back. Anyone who thinks GOD only gave a particular sermon thought to them and them only in the world is pretty arrogant and stuck on themselves.

I agree. The Story is not ours, it was passed down.

But what's amazing is we cite Paul, Peter, Jesus... and incidentals along the way we don't worry about. But when stealing the "intellectual property" of another, we refuse to give credit, and instead do the opposite, pretend as if we are the author of those "designed" thoughts... meaning not just ideas and thoughts, but thoughts creatively put together to make a point.

Ethics 101 Gentlemen (if the accusations are true). You don't take a book a guy reads and go traveling around and running to your TV Church reading word-for-word another man's sermon without giving credit. It's called plagiarism.

Funny, you call those who are plagiarized arrogant and stuck on themselves, but you skip those who refuse to give credit and cite sources as is reasonable -- I call that arrogant and stuck on themselves.

All that said, I'm not even sure it's true about JF. He's just been the biggest target of this accusation. Fact is, 50% of the UPC would be guilty if we compared their sermons with those of TD Jakes.

[commonsense]

Originally Posted by notofworks

If I was given one sermon left to listen to in my life and it had to be a UPC guy, I'd ask for TF Tenney.

I could agree with this. His sermons are always good.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Still what is the problem with this? I am sure this is more common in the UPC ranks than one might think.

What is the problem?

Ethics? Breaking the law? Pride? You pick.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

What is the problem?

Ethics? Breaking the law? Pride? You pick.

Breaking the Law??? How you figure? Pride....if someone has too much pride about their message being reused then GET OVER IT. It is a sermon. Ethics? How really is there an ethical issue here? You are stretchhhhhhhing waaaayyyy out there on this one.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Breaking the Law??? How you figure? Pride....if someone has too much pride about their message being reused then GET OVER IT. It is a sermon. Ethics? How really is there an ethical issue here? You are stretchhhhhhhing waaaayyyy out there on this one.

Plagiarism is illegal. If you preach a sermon for broadcast or recording, you are illegally reproducing intellectual property without giving credit (particularly if it's word-for-word).

Why is it prideful for the guy whose ideas we're taken without credit? What about the pride of the guy too stuck on himself to GIVE the credit?????

Ethics. Yes. It's a common courtesy, and more than that, an ethic, for people to give credit to others when they are intentionally borrowing their thoughts (again, especially word-for-word reciting).

No stretching.

Are you a JF fan that admits the allegations are true or just someone that doesn't believe in citing sources and giving proper credit as reasonable?

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Plagiarism is illegal. If you preach a sermon for broadcast or recording, you are illegally reproducing intellectual property without giving credit (particularly if it's word-for-word).

Why is it prideful for the guy whose ideas we're taken without credit? What about the pride of the guy too stuck on himself to GIVE the credit?????

Ethics. Yes. It's a common courtesy, and more than that, an ethic, for people to give credit to others when they are intentionally borrowing their thoughts (again, especially word-for-word reciting).

No stretching.

Are you a JF fan that admits the allegations are true or just someone that doesn't believe in citing sources and giving proper credit as reasonable?

admit I am a fan of JF-though that is not a fair term to use. I like his ministry. I have listened to thousands of messages in the UPC and out of the UPC. Many UPC ministers copy from others. That is common knowledge. if you deny that it is the remove the rose colored glasses.

I understand plagiarism is illegal, but I don't believe that covers sermons. I really don't there is only plagairism issues it is trademarked or copywritten. Vebal sermons aren't Just copying word for word what someone says is not wrong. If it were then no one could EVER quote another person in a magazine article.

Perhaps some see it as unethical. I don't. If you feel that God is using you to minister a particular sermon do it. If you feel you must give credit to the person whom you heard it from then do so. Otherwise there is no ethical issue, IMO.

As far as the pride issue goes I would that it is childish for someone to get hurt about someone using their sermon with out credit cause NO preacher should be in it for credit from anyone but God. Also you are assuming that JF and other are 'too stuck' on themselves to give credit. That is off base you have no idea if JF is stuck on himself.

I have used others thoughts when minstering before, but not given credit cause I didn't preach it because I heard them do it. I preached it cause God moved me to do it and I didn't recit it.

I don't know you from Adam, but I don't think that the accusations you are making is fair no matter who you are making them too.

[Sam]

Years ago when I was a teenager at a Baptist youth camp, the evangelist stood behind the podium and said, "Tonight I'm preaching -------------'s sermon on--------". I don't remember the person's name nor the sermon subject. That was over 50 years ago. I've never heard anyone say something like that since.

I remember one UPC church where I attended, the pastor preached a sermon one Saturday that I had read in the Pentecostal Evangel (Assembly of God magazine) a few days before.

The first article I had published in the Pentecostal Herald was pretty much "borrowed" from a sermon I had read in the Pentecostal Evangel several years before and had used as a Sunday School lesson at our UPC church. It wasn't a quote because it had been several years since I had read it, but it was pretty similar.