Modesty as described by the General Youth Division

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Perhaps you should read more of TStew, since you admire him for being cool. Your back-handed compliments, for example, are foreign to TStew. I much more enjoy his posts than yours. We have something in common!

I already told you that I don't post like Stew. That is not a big surprise to me. lol I think that Foreverblessed said that I am "blunt". I guess that I am. "Lay those cards on the table and get it over with", is my mantra. LOL!

Apostolic Identity, no matter how it personally affects you, PO, is very much a reality being propogated. You can stick your head in the sand and ignore it, tell me your thought processes when you go shopping, but it won't change the fact that Pentecost is heavily driven by image, outward appearance and insistence on unbiblical uniform standards of dress. That's what our comments are in response to. Like you said, "it's not that hard to figure out."

I don't really have to stick my head in the sand. If you walk into my church and you have a need, sincerely want that need met, God will be there. We are blessed. It's just that simple.

Why would I go somewhere that doesn't have the freedom we have? I don't find anything more appealing right now.

All of your bold inserts, in my post above, are experiences you have had, which I haven't had. So, I think you are broadbrushing and I think it only comes across as critical. I mean, I'm a women and probably hang with more women than you could ever do in your lifetime. In any group I've been with, there might be that one "sad cat". Let her do her own thing if that is how she feels she can survive. I don't really care.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I already told you that I don't post like, Stew. That is not a big surprise to me. lol I think that Foreverblessed said that I am "blunt". I guess that I am. "Lay those cards on the table and get it over with", is my mantra. LOL!


I don't really have to stick my head in the sand. If you walk into my church and you have a need, sincerely want that need met, God will be there. We are blessed. It's just that simple.

Why would I go somewhere that doesn't have the freedom we have? I don't find anything more appealing right now.

All of your bold inserts, in my post above, are experiences you have had, which I haven't had. So, I think you are broadbrushing and I think it only comes across as critical. I mean, I'm a women and probably hang with more women than you could ever do in your lifetime. In any group I've been with, there might be that one "sad cat". Let her do her own thing if that is how she feels she can survive. I don't really care.

1) Either you're just extremely argumentative and stubborn

2) Not getting it

3) Oblivious to culture of the church and live in some remote part of the world

or all of the above.

I assume you are UPCI. Let's get back to what your General Superintendent is propagating. Defend it, comment on it for what it is. But denying it as a reality, and instead discussing your personal way of filtering it all down doesn't change anything. Sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders. This is about the fellowship in whole -- and the culture it has created.

(And no offense, you may have the gender card on me, but I'm very keen to the youth culture and am around it constantly)

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

What's crazy is, those limitations are no less shallow in reverse. This thread which has been about immodesty and foppish, flamboyant dress is full of rules given by people who feel that outward standards are shallow--but they still have standards, just coming from the other direction. What an interesting contradiction.

This is true!

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

What's wrong with it being propogated?

The problem I see is not with the AI group. I see the greater problem being the disingenuous people here who seem to think the only dinstinction pushed is in "dress codes". You act as though the only thing being emphasized in any "standards" church is dress codes. You act as though conservatives wave only one flag, "dress this way or you are none of ours".

That is a fraud I suspect many of you know. Men like DKB and others, I would bet, are far more focussed on preaching and teaching Acts 2:38, the Oneness and other primary doctrines and leaving standards as things of secondary importance. Yes, they obvioulsy bring them up at conferences and camp meetings when they have greater assemblies of the flock, but I imagine it is far more typical for them to rarely mention the issue at church from the pulpit.

Our AI is many things. Standards are simply the first one that is noticed when we are looked at. And some of us are still pretty darn proud of it.

Well thumbs up to you. Just proud for you.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

1) Either you're just extremely argumentative and stubborn

2) Not getting it

3) Oblivious to culture of the church and live in some remote part of the world

or all of the above.

I assume you are UPCI. Let's get back to what your General Superintendent is propagating. Defend it, comment on it for what it is. But denying it as a reality, and instead discussing your personal way of filtering it all down doesn't change anything. Sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders. This is about the fellowship in whole -- and the culture it has created.

I agree with Brother Barnes when he described there riding in the back of a wagon to get where they needed to go. He went on to say they if a wheel broke, they had to all get out of the wagon. He said, "As long as this isn't broken, I'm staying in the wagon."

I personally don't feel that it's broken. We are seeing people coming to God, being baptized, filled with His Spirit. If I was in a dead church where nothing was happening, nothing was progressing, I might be inclined to agree with your criticism of the organization. But, I wasn't raised in this thing. I've seen lots of changes, changes still going on.

I'm staying in the wagon, until God tells me to get out. All I want is for you to listen to what I am saying and understand how I feel. You are calling me stubborn and argumentative, but you are put out that I won't feel the way you do. That I won't agree with you. Well, I don't. So, what do we do about that, Jeffrey?

[Jeffrey]

What's crazy is, those limitations are no less shallow in reverse. This thread which has been about immodesty and foppish, flamboyant dress is full of rules given by people who feel that outward standards are shallow--but they still have standards, just coming from the other direction. What an interesting contradiction.

MB, and what are those reverse standards being propogated, preached incessantly at camps and conferences, splitting groups wide open? It's not really a contradiction at all. In a generic sense, everyone has standards. But I think we both know "standards" reasonates as specific rules your mind immediately goes to when you hear that word, coming from an OP culture.

"Standards," an unbiblical word attempt to describe something "biblical" has produced, in the best of intentions, minimums for church goers that have diminished the call for maximums.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

You are calling me stubborn and argumentative, but you are put out that I won't feel the way you do. That I won't agree with you. Well, I don't. So, what do we do about that, Jeffrey?

Well, actually I'm not "put out" because you won't agree with me. I find it somewhat humorous that you deny this is a focus of the Apos church today. Hit RECORD at a minister's meeting at GC, listen in at the camp meetings last summer, keep your eyes on the blogs, twitter and facebook.

I can careless if you don't agree with me in the end. You just seem to be in denial about a reality. Those leaders in the org would disagree with you and proclaim that this is a problem! They are passionate about it.

Also, I didn't exactly call you those things...

Have a good day, PO.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Well, actually I'm not "put out" because you won't agree with me. I find it somewhat humorous that you deny this is a focus of the Apos church today. Hit RECORD at a minister's meeting at GC, listen in at the camp meetings last summer, keep your eyes on the blogs, twitter and facebook.

I can careless if you don't agree with me in the end. You just seem to be in denial about a reality. Those leaders in the org would disagree with you and proclaim that this is a problem! They are passionate about it.

Also, I didn't exactly call you those things...

Have a good day, PO.

You have a good day as well, Jeffrey.

[DAII]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

What's wrong with it being propogated?

The problem I see is not with the AI group. I see the greater problem being the disingenuous people here who seem to think the only dinstinction pushed is in "dress codes". You act as though the only thing being emphasized in any "standards" church is dress codes. You act as though conservatives wave only one flag, "dress this way or you are none of ours".

That is a fraud I suspect many of you know. Men like DKB and others, I would bet, are far more focussed on preaching and teaching Acts 2:38, the Oneness and other primary doctrines and leaving standards as things of secondary importance. Yes, they obvioulsy bring them up at conferences and camp meetings when they have greater assemblies of the flock, but I imagine it is far more typical for them to rarely mention the issue at church from the pulpit.

Our AI is many things. Standards are simply the first one that is noticed when we are looked at. And some of us are still pretty darn proud of it.

If the WeDeclare statement is any indication some believe these are not secondary but essential

[noeticknight]

Originally Posted by DAII

I am starting to think some would rather strike Pentecostal from the vernacular and replace the identity with their revised, exclusive view of "Apostolic".

Which reminds me, what of AFF? Should we set up a group vote to update the index description on google?