What is the purpose of Hell?

[easter]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I believe the Bible tells us why Jesus died on the cross....

John 12:32. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth (be crucified), will draw all men unto me.

I Timothy 2: 1-6. I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Colossians 1: 16 and 20. For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

I John 2:2. And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Christ died to save the entire world from being separated from God for ever and ever.

Yes we know this but...
It is the sin that is in man that Jesus paid the price in full by his death on the cross.
Remember the bible class verse?
For God so Loved the world that he gave his only begotten son,that whosoever believes in him would not die but have everlasting life.
I can't understand why this sacrifice was made unless it was to save us from, "what"?Would Jesus die on the cross if we only spend a little while in purgatory.Because I might be mistaken but I do believe the Catholics teach that one is punished for a time,refined and set free?If this was the case,Jesus dying on the cross would not cover sins but a little torture would.I just don't see the purgatory thing.It would be great I guess if one died and found themselves some where in limbo.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jason

Bro. Chris, can you give me a brief explanation of how each posistion explains 1 Peter 3 (Jesus preaching to souls in prison)?

This text has always been problematic to me. Here it is in the ESV...

I Peter 3:18-20 (ESV)
18For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, 20because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.

Here's another interesting text...

I Peter 4:6 (ESV)
6For this is why the gospel was preached even to those who are dead, that though judged in the flesh the way people are, they might live in the spirit the way God does.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I’ve yet to hear a logical answer concerning the purpose of Hell. Coming from the perspective of eternal torment, what purpose does eternal torment in Hell serve? After billions, and billions, and billions, and billions of untold billions of eons… what will be accomplished with the majority of souls who have ever lived continuing to cry, scream, plead, and slash in agony?

Or could even Hell perhaps serve another purpose in God’s ultimate plan for all creation?

Hell has been so distorted it is very difficult to find real purpose for it, especially in the traditional view. Seems that the traditional view was developed out of paganism by the Roman church to control the masses. Sadly, that view has caused untold devastation in the hearts and minds of men for centuries. This in turn has caused many millions to reject God out of hand, because they cannot conceive of a God perpetrating such cruelty on His own creation.

The creator of a thing is responsible for the thing that He has created, so to believe that God has lost the ability to bring His creation to redemption is the height of blasphemy!!

The traditional view of hell has been born out of the cruel heart of man, and does great violence to the cause of the Creator.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by easter

Yes we know this but...
It is the sin that is in man that Jesus paid the price in full by his death on the cross.
Remember the bible class verse?
For God so Loved the world that he gave his only begotten son,that whosoever believes in him would not die but have everlasting life.
I can't understand why this sacrifice was made unless it was to save us from, "what"?Would Jesus die on the cross if we only spend a little while in purgatory.

That wouldn't make any sense, you're right. But what if without Jesus' death all souls would be truly lost without any hope of reconciliation for all eternity? Christ's death would be viewed as making reconciliation possible for every soul.

The implication would be that those who believe the Gospel NOW escape God's wrath and purifying judgments....however one day every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

Colossians 1: 16 and 20. For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Because I might be mistaken but I do believe the Catholics teach that one is punished for a time,refined and set free?If this was the case,Jesus dying on the cross would not cover sins but a little torture would.I just don't see the purgatory thing.It would be great I guess if one died and found themselves some where in limbo.

Catholics believe that the souls of the believers who only committed venial sins experience purgatory. However, the evolution of the doctrine of purgatory is interesting. You see many of the Greek Fathers taught that all souls would one day be reconciled through the blood of the cross. The Latin Fathers (who won the debate) argued for endless torments. However, even Latin theologians had to answer to the Greek texts that appear to speak of refinement. So they created the notion of purgatory to satisfy these texts while also holding to the notion of eternal torments. Evidently the Greek laid a strong enough case that they had to create a side doctrine to cover themselves.

[DerechHashem]

Originally Posted by easter

Hell and the Lake of Fire are two different places.

True Dat! Except I like to think of of then as two differant things:

Hell: The Grave. (First Death).

Job 26:6 Hell [is] naked before him, and destruction hath no covering.

Job 28:22 Destruction and death say, We have heard the fame thereof with our ears.

Proverb 15:11 Hell and destruction [are] before the LORD: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?

Proverb 27:20 Hell and destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied.

Lake of Fire: Destruction, Gods righteous fire, no sinful wicked man can look up God and live. (Second Death).

Psalm 80:16 [It is] burned with fire, [it is] cut down: they perish at the rebuke of thy countenance.

Isaiah 60:19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.

Matthew 28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:

Act 28:13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.

Revelation 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance [was] as the sun shineth in his strength.

Revelation 10:1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow [was] upon his head, and his face [was] as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:

Exodus 24:17 And the sight of the glory of the LORD [was] like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel.

Isaiah 29:6 Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire.

Isaiah 30:27 Behold, the name of the LORD cometh from far, burning [with] his anger, and the burden [thereof is] heavy: his lips are full of indignation, and his tongue as a devouring fire:

Isaiah 30:30 And the LORD shall cause his glorious voice to be heard, and shall shew the lighting down of his arm, with the indignation of [his] anger, and [with] the flame of a devouring fire, [with] scattering, and tempest, and hailstones.

Isaiah 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

[easter]

Originally Posted by Aquila

That wouldn't make any sense, you're right. But what if without Jesus' death all souls would be truly lost without any hope of reconciliation for all eternity? Christ's death would be viewed as making reconciliation possible for every soul.

The implication would be that those who believe the Gospel NOW escape God's wrath and purifying judgments....however one day every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

Colossians 1: 16 and 20. For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Catholics believe that the souls of the believers who only committed venial sins experience purgatory. However, the evolution of the doctrine of purgatory is interesting. You see many of the Greek Fathers taught that all souls would one day be reconciled through the blood of the cross. The Latin Fathers (who won the debate) argued for endless torments. However, even Latin theologians had to answer to the Greek texts that appear to speak of refinement. So they created the notion of purgatory to satisfy these texts while also holding to the notion of eternal torments. Evidently the Greek laid a strong enough case that they had to create a side doctrine to cover themselves.

Not to dispute you any but in 1 Peter I was taught and believe that the spirits that Jesus went and preached to were the old testament saints.Now before the blood of the lamb the Jewish people made atonement for sins by the sacrifice of an animal.Before Jesus the saints(who died) were seperated from God.They went down in the heart of the earth.Jesus paid the price in full and went into the heart of the earth and preached the gospel(God's Word) and released them.Jesus now holds those keys.This place in 1 Peter is not the same place where eternal punishment will be exacted.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by DerechHashem

True Dat! Except I like to think of of then as two differant things

The idea of God vaporizing the majority of mankind is truly problematic. This would imply that Jesus died to save humanity...but he failed and so he had to vaporize them.

[DerechHashem]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Hell in Matt. 10:28 is Gehenna, aka the lake of fire.

Gehenna is the ultimate destruction. Gehenna was a real place, it was a trash pit outside the city, where refuse and bodies (those who could not afford burials/or criminals) were burnt, these fires burned 24/7, what the fires did not consume, worms (maggots) did.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by easter

Not to dispute you any but in 1 Peter I was taught and believe that the spirits that Jesus went and preached to were the old testament saints.Now before the blood of the lamb the Jewish people made atonement for sins by the sacrifice of an animal.Before Jesus the saints(who died) were seperated from God.They went down in the heart of the earth.Jesus paid the price in full and went into the heart of the earth and preached the gospel(God's Word) and released them.Jesus now holds those keys.This place in 1 Peter is not the same place where eternal punishment will be exacted.

I don't see these as Old Testament Saints...

I Peter 3:18-20 (ESV)
18For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, 20because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.

But I do see something important coalescing. Do you agree that the Gospel was preached unto the dead for their deliverance at least once?

[DerechHashem]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I'd tend to agree that the notion of Hell lends itself to the concept of “prison”. However, we don’t torture prisoners. In addition we don’t sentence all prisoners to life in prison regardless of their crime.

Let’s take for example a 17 year old girl who dies in a car accident on her way to the mall who does not know God. She’s going to die “lost”. Let’s take a second individual who is 42 and a serial killer. How can it be “just” to punish each with unending torments in a lake of fire? What would the purpose serve? After billions of untold ages will their screams for mercy have accomplished anything? Is God satisfied, pleased, or entertained by such horror? Will we find entertainment or satisfaction in seeing such horror first hand?

How can we celebrate our salvation knowing that the majority of mankind will suffer such a fate? If Satan’s goal was to destroy mankind and less than 2% are saved, did Satan not win? If Christ’s intention was to save all of mankind and less than 2% are saved, did Christ not loose?

Some have postulated the argument that the lake of fire “refines” the soul, breaking its will, satisfying holy justice, and bringing the soul into harmony with God’s will. Those who propose this believe that at some point in eternity’s future ages all human souls will be reconciled to God through Christ’s shed blood. For these believers Hell’s flame has a purpose in God’s redemptive plan.

Some postulate that the lake of fire will “destroy” the soul, annihilating it from existence. All suffering ceases and their consciousness will be rendered non-existent. For these believers Hell’s flame serves a purpose in that it satisfies God’s holy justice and destroys wickedness from the Universe. Still it’s a concern that God would fail to find a successful redemptive plan for all humanity.

What purpose does the unending torment serve?

If 1 is saved Satan loses.

Also the concept of Limbo/Purgatory is Pagan.