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Re: Mooney Guns for "Secret" Meeting in Detroit?
Quote:
Originally Posted by staysharp
Yes, this has been his teaching for many years. He preached years ago at MS campmeeting (I know, I was there) he said he was on an airplane and saw himself sitting on the wing smiling at him...it was his angel and he knew he was gonna be ok. He worships angels. The entire message in Memphis was about how the angels follow him.
He also said that many strange this have been happening to him since he was 'raised" from the dead. He failed to mention the months he stayed in ICU...
I've lost all respect for his ministry.
ss .just curious why did you put quotes around raised from the dead vis vi ls ?its my understanding that he was clinicaly dead when his accident happened . he was raised by an almighty imo with the help of the professionals that God created and gave the talents too. so was my youngest daughter {saved from death} as a matter of fact one of the doctors asked if i would pray with him, as he would with me, because he said i can do nothing without him. but i can do anything with him. i to this day have no knowledge of his experience with God . ps i havent read all 33 post categories maybe you already answered this
ss .just curious why did you put quotes around raised from the dead vis vi ls ?its my understanding that he was clinicaly dead when his accident happened . he was raised by an almighty imo with the help of the professionals that God created and gave the talents too. so was my youngest daughter {saved from death} as a matter of fact one of the doctors asked if i would pray with him, as he would with me, because he said i can do nothing without him. but i can do anything with him. i to this day have no knowledge of his experience with God . ps i havent read all 33 post categories maybe you already answered this
Because that was his quote exactly. He inferred he had been raised miraculously from the dead. Truth is; the Drs revived him and he was in ICU for a long time recovering. I'm not saying God didn't heal him, I am saying he is being deceptive concerning this issue.
So looking back on the UPC do you wonder how you could have been so blind?
Good Lord Delta, does every isolated situation you hear rumor of, lead to this great leap to characterize all the millions of UPC people all over the world negatively?
If I list some of the wonderful things many others are doing (including my own father), will you apply the same sort of broad brush and paint the entire organization in that light (whether everyone else is doing it or not?).
What is amazing to me is that there are so many here who wish to paint this crazy caricature of what all the UPCI is...and ignore the many UPCI members even on this forum who in no way even remotely resemble that. It's getting pretty predictable...
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Good Lord Delta, does every isolated situation you hear rumor of, lead to this great leap to characterize all the millions of UPC people all over the world negatively?
If I list some of the wonderful things many others are doing (including my own father), will you apply the same sort of broad brush and paint the entire organization in that light (whether everyone else is doing it or not?).
What is amazing to me is that there are so many here who wish to paint this crazy caricature of what all the UPCI is...and ignore the many UPCI members even on this forum who in no way even remotely resemble that. It's getting pretty predictable...
I was asking of staysharp's experience. He said he has moved on from the UPC current teachings.
It is no secret that I feel that the doctrinal foundation of the UPC is what leads to so much of it's problems. When the foundation is of balance then it will have broad brushing effects across the movement. There are many great people in the UPC, still the message is unorthodox.
Scholars do not know the dialogue from the Elders. We are missing 2 other letters from Paul to the Elders and also the correspondence from them. The original Greek does not have quotations so its difficult to know what is a question and what is an answer.
What adds to the speculation that this passage is not fully comprehended is that there is a tremendous amount of inconsistencies regarding what is being said...the one statement alone that men should not cover their heads is not biblically sound and could be a question, not an answer because Jewish men (Paul was one) always covered their heads when they prayed. They still do to this day...(Jesus himself would have) if they do not have a skull cap or prayer shawl, they place their hands over their heads.
This text is dialogue from Paul and the Elders. We do not have the full correspondence. This IMO, does not qualify as sound doctrine. Furthermore, in the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses let every word be established. This doctrine is not substantiated biblically. No other apostle speaks of it and neither does the author in any of his other Epistles.
We know that women did cut their hair in the bible and men did have long hair. Paul himself had long hair having taken the Nazarite vow himself. So, there are so many inconsistencies with historical bibliocity that a sound exegesis of this text would conclude there are many unanswered questions.
And I smell someone who likes to use Dead peoples names instead of coming out & saying who you are?
Who are you?
Hiding behind an anonymous name & making inflamatory statements is worse than anything!
Ron, is it that you just don't have a good response to what these people say that you have to drone on over and over and over about them "hiding" behind an anonymous name?
Worse than anything? Can you be a little more melodramatic? There are far "worse" things than wanting to have a sense or privacy on the internet in a public forum particularly given draconian tendency of some to "sniff" out certain individuals, label them and orchestrate a campaign against them.
Maybe if some individuals had no fear of reprisals they COULD be more public. Your constant beating a dead horse of "anonymous" names does not help. Why do you need their real identities? How will it help you formulate an intelligent answer?
The truth is it won't and that is exactly the reason why some have chosen anonymity, because of people who demand to know "who you are" so they know who to snub or who to black ball at the next meeting. There are far too many "peer pressure" groups and cabals for some to speak openly without fear of some sort of action against them.
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The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
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That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
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The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Good Lord Delta, does every isolated situation you hear rumor of, lead to this great leap to characterize all the millions of UPC people all over the world negatively?
If I list some of the wonderful things many others are doing (including my own father), will you apply the same sort of broad brush and paint the entire organization in that light (whether everyone else is doing it or not?).
What is amazing to me is that there are so many here who wish to paint this crazy caricature of what all the UPCI is...and ignore the many UPCI members even on this forum who in no way even remotely resemble that. It's getting pretty predictable...
Is your father a missionary to Liberia or was a missionary there? I remember a Bro. Stewart who came to our church and preached about Monrovia(???) and how he had to hide behind a waterbed because of gunfire. If so, he was and still is I'm sure a great man! I remember being really moved by his burden!
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"Just a sinner saved by grace!"
Furthermore, in the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses let every word be established. This doctrine is not substantiated biblically. No other apostle speaks of it and neither does the author in any of his other Epistles.
I agree with this completely. I've never understood why this 'women shall not cut their hair' rule was not taught in the law of Moses. Nowhere else in the entire Bible is the issue addressed.
Well, I currently visited a singles conference in Memphis and walked in as Stoneking started preaching. The first thing out of his mouth was..."have u ever felt like you've been someplace you haven't? U know why? Cause your angel went before you. I learned this from Bro. Barnes..."
I sat there in stone silence and couldn't believe my ears. I felt completely disconnected from the spirit which operated in that meeting. It's as if I was looking from the outside in. Like I was in a dream as a spectator. I felt no spiritual connection whatsoever.
IMO, the UPCI is a troubled organization on the verge of spiritual adultery.
Along with his newfound "Angel Deja Vu" teaching he seems to be teaching that angels administer healings during service also.
None of his assertions, as is customary with Lee, is supported by scripture but rather sensational anecdotes and testimonies.
He also he boasted of a private camping trip he had with Haney and a Haney relative. In the story, he relates that it was a time of spiritual retreat and prayer where they were visited by an angelic visitation perceived by Lee.
Stoneking, along with his Holy Magic Hair doctrine, has for years delved in what many of his peers deem, mistakenly or not, as angel worship.
Last edited by Kim Komando; 07-09-2009 at 02:36 PM.
I agree with this completely. I've never understood why this 'women shall not cut their hair' rule was not taught in the law of Moses. Nowhere else in the entire Bible is the issue addressed.
Understanding the bible requires thinking. We can't just go reading and making up whatever doctrines we want. God wants us to dig and question and make sense of this treasure that is the Bible.
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