We're Not Putting X-Mas Trees Up!

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

My assembly is still doing well in this area...

It's about teaching this in a loving, holistic sort of way and preaching the Truth so strong that love for the Truth becomes so great that one's heart could almost burst at its reception... when this happens, giving up xmas trees is easy.

-Bro. Alex

True. But religious pride, arrogance, division, and strife doesn't appear to be so easy among those who highly prize their "no holiday" stance. I'm much rather see a warm humble family with a Christmas tree than an arrogant Pharisee who prides himself or herself on the fact that they don't have a silly tree and posts condemnation of their brethren on internet forums

Just a thought.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

I'm not superstitious.



I'm also not living my life based on any kind of fear.



Do you realize you could have walked into my home when I was a witch and never known? I didn't display obviously pagan items. But every single piece I used in spellwork was sitting very openly displayed. Oh, other witches would have known. It's all very obvious when you're familiar with it, but Christians have no idea what to look for (most of them, IME).

Can you tell me what makes the tree you have in your home different from the tree I had in my home? I'm sincerely curious.

Brother, you don't want me to touch this. I won't do it openly, not on an Apostolic forum. But I will say this, I do not attend an Apostolic church due to exactly what you posted here. Clothing is not a war worth waging. And a Christmas tree? Should never be preached for, or against, from the platform.

If there were teachings regarding God's desires for His people, the rest really would take care of itself. It does in the church I go to. Do we all look alike, act alike, believe alike? Nope. But we're all pursuing God and God is faithful to make sure we'll all get where we're going.

The bolded above is what I'd like to draw the reader's attention to. It's my conviction that those who have been involved in the occult may be tempted or have a tendency to think according to old paradigms. I don't fault one who was a witch for wanting to ride their home of pagan influence, such could serve as a temptation to revert to paganism. It could also disturb one's sensibilities. I fully understand this. However, I wasn't a witch, pagan, or anything of that nature. To me, a Christmas tree is just a decoration. It's like the decorative fencing I have in my back yard. It means nothing to me. It's artificial for one. Pagans prized having a "living tree" in their homes. It's decorated with traditional Christmas ornaments and festive things from places as far away as India. (We have a very nice set of ornaments from India made of very colorful straw that an Indian friend gave us.) I grew up in a home where a Christmas tree was just a family tradition. We'd go out, cut it down, put it up...together. It was a tradition that brought us together. I'm of European ancestry, and I know it has pagan roots, but it's no pagan any longer. The push-up has pagan roots, coffee (as mentioned above ) has pagan roots, our calendar has pagan roots. Do you have a calendar hanging on a wall in your home? The very names of the months and days offer honor to ancient pagan gods.

I believe that it's important to know the roots of a thing and to keep grounded in Christ, but c'mon, we can go to extremes that are unnecessary.

But I guess if I were a witch, I'd feel uneasy around some of this stuff too. But to me...it's just a decoration. A cultural thing. I strongly suggest that our readers read a book that can be found here,

http://www.amazon.com/Stories-Behind...d_bxgy_b_img_c

While many of our traditions have roots in paganism, most traditions AS WE KNOW THEM have come to be within the past two or three centuries.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I am just going towards the conclusions of your posts. You open a Pandora's box when you use the kind of logic that says because the Bible doesn't specifically condem a pine tree covered in jewelry, therefore it is a legitimit form of Christian worship. The Bible does tell us not to mingle the worship of God with that of Dagon. When the ark of the covenant was placed in Dagon's temple, the Lord God knocked the idol down on its face (position of worship) and then after the image was propped back in an upright position, the Lord removed its head (authority) and hands (strength). When the built a golden calf they also built an altar unto the Lord God, when Judah, and Israel split the upper northern kingdom's king set up his own priests and two calves, (created his own way to celebrate the Lord) so the people would not return to Jerusalem. We just don't make this up as we go along, and are admonished to follow the way of the apostles on who the foundation is built with Jesus being at the head of the corner.

The woman who followed the Paul and Silas had a spirit of Python (the Dragon who gaurded the oracle of Delphi), the woman said:

"These men are the servants of the most High God, who proclaim to us the way of salvation."

Although the woman proclaimed a truth concerning Paul and Silas, and although the woman seemed to celebrate the coming of the message of the Gospel and its messengers, the apostle turned and rebuked her.

The apostle turned and rebuked the woman, because he didn't want his message to be mingled with her message.



Were do you live? I Bible study with college students who have full knowledge of the pagan roots of xmas, and its pine tree. In our Bible studies we have all kinds of people join us that find it refreshing that we present a clear and thoughtful argument on the roots of paganism found within modern Churchanity. A Swastika is a symbol of good will and triumph, and yet it has had its meaning changed to mean evil. The SS of the Nazis were just rune symbols. Yet they were given the meaning of evil. Still no matter what meaning while it be good or bad, they all belong to paganism, and movement that is diametrically opposed to God, and worship that concerned Him.

Like I said once in this thread already, you can serve chicken soup and hot dogs, and call it gumbo and boudin. Yet to all who know the truth and want the truth it's still just hotdogs and chicken soup.



You don't have to bow down to it, you just have to take the time to construct the image, to decorate it with the symbols, and talismans, amulets, and top it off with a pentagram or hexagram. To the person who props it up and decorates the image he thinks it is just part of a season, and festive decoration? Festive? As in the word festival, and a the celebrate the festival without knowing much about its true meaning. Just like people who sit on pews and really don't have a deep understanding about all they do in a church service. Yet ignorance of the law doesn't free us from its judgements.

Saying something is not a duck, when it's quacking and waddling, doesn't make it not a duck.



What does being a conservative have to do with not celebrating xmas?

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Bro. EB, I don't mix my worship with the custom of a Christmas tree. Frankly, I don't do anything special religiously during Christmas accept maybe put up a manger scene and read the Christmas story from my Bible. I see the Christmas tree and the decorations as a cultural custom, not a religious custom.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

How can you say there are bigger fish, when you don't understand the bait fish?

This isn't fishing, this is Christianity. I find religious pride, arrogance, division, and strife far more deadly than a silly Christmas tree.

You condemn me over a decoration. I'm calling the reader's attention to your spirit.

That's what I mean by "bigger fish to fry".

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

I get this idea that some of you think this is all in the person's head who thinks an idol is more than a piece of wood/stone/etc? Am I right?

Nahkoe, you admitted that you were once a witch. That explains it all. For you, these things have a meaning that goes far beyond "decorations" as in my home. These things key certain aspects of your spirit and remind you of pagan ways. I don't doubt that there may be a spiritual temptation to return to paganism for you or one who may have also have been a witch. Just as with the early Christians, Christians who believed in pagan gods customs or practices, and Christians who may have been Jews and saw these things as unclean may have been repulsed at eating meat sacrificed to idols. However, Paul acknowledges that an idol is NOTHING. Those stronger brethren who can see through the religious haze know that there is no sin in eating meat sacrificed to idols as long as God is thanked for his provision.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You don't understand the scripture. Paul isn't giving license to go around eating meat in a pagan temple, nor is he advocating the saints visiting a pagan temple. This is the reason why Paul comments that he would eat NO MORE MEAT as long as the world standeth, if what he was doing would offend a new converts. Also the words of Christ when He makes His statement about if anyone would offend one of these little ones. Paul also refuse to take offerings 1st Corinthians 9, because he thought it would hinder the work of the Lord.

1Cor 10:14-33

"Wherefore, my dearly beloved, FLEE FROM IDOLATRY. I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say. The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread. Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar? What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, THEY SACRIFICE TO DEVILS, and NOT to God: and I WOULD NOT THAT YE HAVE FELLOWSHIP WITH DEVILS. Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, AND the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, AND of the table OF DEVILS. Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he? All things are lawful for me, BUT all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, BUT all things EDIFY NOT. Let no man seek his OWN, but every man another's wealth. Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake: For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof. If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake. But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, EAT NOT for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof: Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience? For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks? Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: Even as I please all men in all things, NOT seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may BE SAVED."

The apostle presents a simple teaching about those who know better should set an example for those who do not. We seek the welfare of others and not ourselves, we use not our liberty as a cloak to do wrong but to do right.
Paul makes the statement that we are not to mingle the cup of the Lord and His table with the cup and table of devils. The pagans also had meat offerings and drink offerings (cups of blood) and Paul didn't want these practices confused with those that were held by the Jewish Law.
The Gentiles were told in Acts 15, to abstain from their old pagan practices.
Please allow the Bible to interpret itself with the whole council of the scriptures, instead of takig it out of context. You will find that the truth is easily seen.

in Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Bro. EB, I don't go to a pagan temple for Christmas. lol

I have an artificial tree with decorations, most of which are of items and things that have only existed within the past 300 years or so. I don't worship it, bow down to it, or even regard it as anything accept a cultural decoration. Frankly, it's a mockery of what a pagan would have observed. A pagan would have made sure that the tree was cut down and was real. A pagan would plant it in water. A pagan would have placed gifts to their gods under the tree, by giving these gifts to friends and family, I'd be desecrating what a pagan would regard as a sacred gift. I decorate the tree with ornaments that are not of much consequence to paganism, no thaumatergy, talismans, or anything of that nature. They'd find it offensive that I hung a Mickey Mouse ornament on their god. lol

Get real bro. You're exaggerating the issue. And my old pastor used to warn us, an exaggeration is nothing but an inflatable lie. A lie, or distortion of the truth, is far worse than a seasonal decoration.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

I'm not talking about the meat offered to idols.

I'm talking about the idea y'all seem to have that an idol is nothing.

Nevermind. It'd be too long of a debate. I just figured it out on my own. I'll just leave y'all to what you believe now.

We weren't witches.

And remember what I said about "fear"? It's all grounded in a superstitious fear of idols...which are nothing by the way.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Mark how can you sing happy birthday when he wasn't born during December 25th? Oh I forgot that doesn't matter.

It's just a day set aside to honor or remember his birth since no one knows when it really was. I'll make a deal with you, provide the actual date of his birth and we'll celebrate his birth on that day. lol

In the mean time, reality beckons, we remember his birth on December 25th, a day that used to be used to honor our ancestors gods. We've overwritten their paganism and called all of the Western world's attention to Jesus Christ. Dominion and victory is a beautiful thing.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I think I'm going to have an even better December 26th, 27th, and the 28th.

My family has a family tradition. We have a box of candies and we eat a piece of candy before bed for the twelve days of Christmas. It's just a thing we do.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

What thought? Imagine singing happy birthday to someone when it's not there birthday. It is pretty obnoxious don't you think?

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

I bet you're the kind of guy that has a real problem with abstract concepts.