We're Not Putting X-Mas Trees Up!

[StMark]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

That's not what you said Mark, you said the NEW BORN King. Every year He is shown as a baby in a manger, three kings (when we don't have any idea how many they were, and they weren't kings, but magicians). We are shown no where in the scripture where we are to make up a birth day (24th, 25th 26th take your pick of December) for the man Jesus Christ, and commemorate it. Also build traditions around it that were stolen from other religions.



Isn't denial wonderful. Too bad it only works on the one who is in it.
Mark, just keep repeating that to yourself, while the rest of the world who deal with facts and reality laugh at you.



Well, Mark, me boy, here is some more facts for you. Those "protastants" are part of a church split from the Roman Catholics, and with the Trinity, and baptism in titles, they also brought the December 25th borrowed from Sol Invictus, Mithra.




The above statement is a total contradiction. Your not bound to adhere to the way Catholics do thing? Let's see, the Catholics borrowed December 25th from the Mithra cult, and you obediently celebrate on the exact day. You also call the day by the same title the Catholics gave the day. You don't call it Christservice, Christ's birthday, you call it Christmas. Do you have Mid Week Mass? Sunday Morning Mass? Sunday Evening Mass? No yet once a year you have a December 25th Mass, just as the Roman Mother church taught the world.



1.3 billion Roman Catholics in the world. Mark, you don't want to compete, I take your place. I may or may not make a dent, but i'll die trying.




Just like every other denomination on the planet does. We all do. The xmas, and the easter are the two red letter days that denominations try and pack the house. We don't work two days a year. We need to be pounding the pavement every day.



Praise Jesus, and bless His Holy name.


In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

There's is NO scriptural prohibition against celebrating the birth of christ just as we celebrate the resurrection. Mass comes from the word "to celebrate". Are we all lost because of it??

We don't just make 2 outreach efforts a year EB.those are just 2 of them.

EB. can I send you a Christmas offering??

[Scott Hutchinson]

I'll take a Christmas offering.

[StMark]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

I'll take a Christmas offering.

for saved teen or Bro Ben'casa??

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Do you dress up for church?

Yes, it sure beats preaching naked. I think you and I already went through the Frank Viola doctrine. By the way, Frank doesn't practice what he preaches. I asked him to show me where the apostles charged money for their writings. Guess what? I'm still waiting for the reply.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Do you see any problem with steeples?

I wouldn't advocate placing one a building, the same way I wouldn't advocate the pine tree in a house.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Do you center the congregation on a "pulpit"?

Maybe you should ask Frank Viola to explain to you what exactly a pulpit is?
it's not a lectern, which is simply Latin for "place to read." If you would take the time you do a little research, you would find that churches really don't have pulpits, but lecterns. The true pulpits where at least 12 feet on the wall of a cathedral, and the monk, bishop, or priest climbed stairs to reach it. He then looked down on the congregation and preached. The reason that it was done that way is because they didn't have PA systems. Within the pulpit was a dome above the head of the speaker/preacher and it was a sounding board.
The speaker/preachers voice hit the sounding board and it help carry the sound out over the congregation. The height of the pulpit also aided the speaker/preacher to be heard by those who was preaching to. When Jesus had Peter row the boat out, so Jesus could speak to the crowd, it was a pulpit affect. By using the boat in that manner Jesus was using it as a platform, and the water as a lower sounding board that would carry Jesus' voice. Jesus also would of made use of hills where He could stand and address the people. Again a pulpit affect. Within the first century synagogues there were two lecterns, one to read the scroll, and the other to interpret the scroll and teach from. There was also a raised platform between them used for the different Rabbis to argue their points concerning what was preached or taught.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Do you give an "altar call"?

No, I'm not D.L. Moody. Nor, am I Frank Viola.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Do you tithe?

Yes, just as paul taught in 1st Corinthians chapter 9.
Does Frank Viola charge for his writings? Did Peter, Paul or James?

Originally Posted by Aquila

Do you preach a "sermon"?

No, I don't use notes.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Do you use "grape juice" for communion instead of real wine?

Wine.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Do you use a "wafer" instead of real unleavened bread for communion?

Unleaven bread, also it wasn't communion, it was the passover meal.

Originally Posted by Aquila

...the list could go on and on.

What would be interesting, is if your list doesn't apply to you. That you know aall those items and don't practice them, yet you turn around and celebrate xmas? After viewing your list and seeing that you defend the Papal holy day, I would guess that you understand all those things are wrong, but you accept that Christianity that you currently practice is a Roman Catholic layover.

Originally Posted by Aquila

All of the things and practices listed above are not of Christian origin.

Again, is that through good research or just a skimmed reading of Mr. Violas printed merchandise?

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Isn't it amazing how some individuals will ball and sqawl that standards are unbiblical, will turn right around and defend some Catholic holiday like they were defending Truth?


www.OnTimeJournal.com

The difference between Christmas and standards is how they are presented.

No one forces a Christian to celebrate or not celebrate Christmas through manipulation of scriptures or minds.

However, many Christians have felt manipulated into thinking that to violate this or that man made ordinance that's built on (best case scenario) a misunderstanding of scripture will send you to hell.

Neither standards or Christmas are hellfire issues.
Neither are Christmas trees, which by the way, I am not putting up this year.

[Sept5SavedTeen]

Aquila's list of things I find to be a bit ridiculous on a few points. Pagans didn't debate over the use of wine or grape juice for communion, and for the record, my assembly uses communion, and I'm fine with it, it's just a symbol anyways... but then again, I believe in open communion, so a ton of people think I'm heretical for that, I don't see communion as a "sacrament" as many conservative apostolics do...

Also, as for sermons, I don't see the pagan origin...

Lastly, although in our meetinghouse, there is no pulpit, the elder uses a simple black music stand... would that be too pagan?

A bit ridiculous...

-Bro. Alex

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Now, in regards to Christmas and holiday customs, I look at them kind of like this, David took Goliath's sword and placed it in the Temple to give God glory. We've taken what was the enemy's and we're using it to draw the world's attention to Christ.

You are going to use that example to condone making up your own religion?

So, nothing is off limits, rosary, statues, icons, etc. What you are saying is what comes out of the mouths of Roman Catholic priests and Eastern Orthodox Monks. Same devil different dress. Or should I say the song remains the same?

Originally Posted by Aquila

As for the "Christmas tree" and other "customs", I see it as ethnic and cultural customs. Kind of like music.

So are bones through the nose, and collecting the body parts of dead relatives in other cultures. You are painting yourself into a corner.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Most instruments used in today's worship aren't "biblical". They are cultural. We use them in the West because these are our instruments. If we lived in Africa, we'd wear African garb and use African insturments.

I spent a week with Brother Teklemariam and Sister Mary, they weren't dressed in tribal garb. The man wore a suit and the woman wore a dress.
I also have a Brother who has a church in India, he wears a suit and his wife wears a dress and no jewelry. While in India jewelry is a big deal

Originally Posted by Aquila

My previous pastor was once given a wooden statue of a "spirit warrior" by a tribal chieftan from Africa. The chieftan explained that my previous pastor was a "spirit warrior" and that this statue embodied his passion for God. My pastor kept it and cherished it to his dying day.

Sounds very bizarre. Thank Jesus it wasn't a shruken head.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Some things are just cultural. I'm Dutch, Irish, English, and German. I'm proud of my heritage and maintain my European cultural identity. I'm not in on this "war against white European identity" garbage that wants to erase anything European from our culture. For me the war you're waging is not just about "paganism" but it's an effort to erase cultural identity. I'm European, always have been...always will be. And you can live with it or die with it on your mind.

I'm a human being.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I'm a human being.


www.OnTimeJournal.com

BWAHAHA!

Ok, seriously, what are you?

[Sept5SavedTeen]

Bro. Benincasa,

Do you fellowship with Teklemariam?

-Bro. Alex

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

The difference between Christmas and standards is how they are presented.

No one forces a Christian to celebrate or not celebrate Christmas through manipulation of scriptures or minds.

However, many Christians have felt manipulated into thinking that to violate this or that man made ordinance that's built on (best case scenario) a misunderstanding of scripture will send you to hell.

Neither standards or Christmas are hellfire issues.
Neither are Christmas trees, which by the way, I am not putting up this year.

You see this is where you all aren't getting it.

The xmas is a NON ISSUE.

There is no where in the Bible that my family or the rest of the planet are admonished to acknowledge the made up date, or the made up holiday.

I love this time of year, I get to see the same people who pound the drum against standards fight like gladiators to defend a Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox holiday.

As for me and my house, we have nothing to do with this holiday.

What you do with you and yours is on your head. Just don't try to pass it off to my children.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com