Pitfalls in Solely Relying on Acts for doctrine?

[2020Vision]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Mike, I luv you bro, but you're killing me here.

Careful now... If you want to use that line of argument, it simply doesn't hold up.

For example... there are certainly instances in the Book of Acts where it talks about people being saved, but the Bible never stated that they repented. Should we just assume that repentance isnt necessary for salvation since it's not recorded in each instance?

If so, wouldnt there be a serious flaw with that assumption?

Thanks for playing

Great point.

[Hoovie]

TR,
Chapter 14 when Paul says he would that we ALL spake in tongues is he referencing the "Gift of Tongues" or a sign they should expect of the Spirit indwelling?

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Mike, I luv you bro, but you're killing me here.

Careful now... If you want to use that line of argument, it simply doesn't hold up.

For example... there are certainly instances in the Book of Acts where it talks about people being saved, but the Bible never stated that they repented. Should we just assume that repentance isnt necessary for salvation since it's not recorded in each instance?

If so, wouldnt there be a serious flaw with that assumption?

Thanks for playing

TR, I love you too, in spite of your condescending attitude sometimes!

You do make a good point.

However, repentance has ALWAYS been a part of salvation, even before the Holy Ghost was poured out. It started at an altar of sacrifice. It's a given that one cannot be saved without repentance, and that concept is clearly spelled out time and time again in scripture, i.e. when JEsus said "Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish".

Jesus never mentioned tongues in connection with salvation.

So, does speaking in tongues really hold as much of a "given" status when it comes to salvation as repentance does?

And, if - in your mind - it does, then why is it that we don't hold folks to the Book of Acts benchmark of speaking in "other" tongues as the Spirit gives utterance, rather than them speaking in an "unknown" tongue?

[bkstokes]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

TR, I love you too, in spite of your condescending attitude sometimes!

You do make a good point.

However, repentance has ALWAYS been a part of salvation, even before the Holy Ghost was poured out. It started at an altar of sacrifice. It's a given that one cannot be saved without repentance, and that concept is clearly spelled out time and time again in scripture, i.e. when JEsus said "Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish".

Jesus never mentioned tongues.

So, does speaking in tongues really hold as much of a "given" status when it comes to salvation as repentance does?

And, if - in your mind - it does, then why is it that we don't hold folks to the Book of Acts benchmark of speaking in "other" tongues as the Spirit gives utterance, rather than them speaking in an "unknown" tongue?

Mike

I also like TR because he takes his beliefs seriously. I have also noticed that his writing style can demark a certain conotation towards him being superior.

I, however, give him the benefit of the doubt, and believe he does not do it intentionally.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by bkstokes

Mike

I also like TR because he takes his beliefs seriously. I have also noticed that his writing style can demark a certain conotation towards him being superior.

I, however, give him the benefit of the doubt, and believe he does not do it intentionally.

I like him too, BK............when I first started posting with TR I misinterpreted his posts and took a bit of offense. But, as I started reading more of his thoughts, I realize that he is a brilliant guy, and he DOES feel strongly about his beliefs.

We still like to jab each other now and then, but I don't take it personally any more, and I find that I've learned a lot from him!

(But don't tell him that, or he'll get the big head)

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

TR,
Chapter 14 when Paul says he would that we ALL spake in tongues is he referencing the "Gift of Tongues" or a sign they should expect of the Spirit indwelling?

Well, as I said in my previous posts to Mike, I believe context of the entire chapter makes it pretty clear, beginning from the very first verse:

1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

He is speaking about the "gift of tongues" here; he is not referring to the sign of one initially receiving baptism/indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

To paraphrase it, I think Paul's meaning in verse 5 could be accurately summed up this way:

"I'd be happy if you all had the gift of tongues, but I'd be even happier if you all had the gift of prophecy; because a person who prophesies is greater (that is, of more value to the church) than one who has the gift of tongues, unless he has the gift of interpretation also, for the edification of the body."

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Well, as I said in my previous posts to Mike, I believe context of the entire chapter makes it pretty clear, beginning from the very first verse:

1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

He is speaking about the "gift of tongues" here; he is not referring to the sign of one initially receiving baptism/indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

To paraphrase it, I think Paul's meaning in verse 5 could be accurately summed up this way:

"I'd be happy if you all had the gift of tongues, but I'd be even happier if you all had the gift of prophecy; because a person who prophesies is greater (that is, of more value to the church) than one who has the gift of tongues, unless he has the gift of interpretation also, for the edification of the body."

So, then when someone speaks in tongues in prayer it is the gift of tongues, EXCEPT if it is the first (initial) time he speaks - in that case it is not the gift of tongues?

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by bkstokes

Mike

I also like TR because he takes his beliefs seriously. I have also noticed that his writing style can demark a certain conotation towards him being superior.

I, however, give him the benefit of the doubt, and believe he does not do it intentionally.

I appreciate that, BJ.
I'm dont consider myself superior to anyone. But I do know that whenever you "put the smackdown" on someone's arguments, it can rub them the wrong way at times, even when you take great pains to ensure that you're attacking the argument, not the person.

I also think though, that when you shoot down a person's argument, sometimes that person's bruised ego might cause them to play the "Oh, dont be so superior about it" card as a way of firing back. You cant really prevent that; that's just a part of the territory on internet forums.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

So, then when someone speaks in tongues in prayer it is the gift of tongues, EXCEPT if it is the first (initial) time he speaks - in that case it is not the gift of tongues?

Yes sir.
If a person is praying in tongues, that is definitely a manifestation of the gift of tongues. But for someone who is being filled with the Holy Ghost....it is the gift of the Holy Spirit they are receiving, evidenced by the (initial) speaking in tongues. But not everyone who receives the gift of the Holy Spirit, even though they speak in tongues then, is receiving the gift of tongues at the same time.

To use myself as an example, I'm like millions of believers who speaks/prays in tongues at will. That is a manifestation of the gift of tongues, which we sometimes refer to our "prayer language". (In my case, this didnt come to me until a few years after I initially received the gift/baptism of the Spirit and spoke in tongues)
... But I have never given a "message" in tongues [with accompanying interpretation] as other people I know. That is also a separate manifestation of the gift. Paul addresses both of these in 1 Cor 14.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Yes sir.
If a person is praying in tongues, that is definitely a manifestation of the gift of tongues. But for someone who is being filled with the Holy Ghost....it is the gift of the Holy Spirit they are receiving, evidenced by the (initial) speaking in tongues. But not everyone who receives the gift of the Holy Spirit, even though they speak in tongues then, is receiving the gift of tongues at the same time.

To use myself as an example, I'm like millions of believers who speaks/prays in tongues at will. That is a manifestation of the gift of tongues, which we sometimes refer to our "prayer language". (In my case, this didnt come to me until a few years after I initially received the gift/baptism of the Spirit and spoke in tongues)
... But I have never given a "message" in tongues [with accompanying interpretation] as other people I know. That is also a separate manifestation of the gift. Paul addresses both of these in 1 Cor 14.

Thank you for responding.

I am going to be transparent here and just say this is very confusing to me.