Witchcraft = medication

[Rico]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

It's possible to trust God AND take drugs.

H.O., no one is saying you can't.

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Their line of thinking is no different than that of the snake handlers, who believe that if they are bitten, they won't die, and if they do, it's because their faith was lacking.

Stupidity in purest form.

So, you are saying that Job was stupid too? Job trusted God completely and from what you said, you're saying that Job is no different than the snake handlers, which is far fetched to say the least.

[TCSQ]

[QUOTE=Rico;569048] Live and let live, Bro.





Kind of ironic given the subject don't you think. And I am not the least bit ashamed of ANYTHING I have posted on this thread. BAD examples for people to follow will NEVER be justifiable even when done in "faith".

The fact that you "probably know" who I am talking about in another if not ALL of these cases points out another underlying reason this needs to be pointed out. This disastrous position is the basis for a circle of fellowship among some very VERY independent or rather "independent" churches where this is one of the DEFINING doctrines of their fellowship. It is this doctrine that is held out consistently in front of all their members as being as one poster called it "GREAT FAITH" .

The peer pressure and pastoral pressure to follow this example or be reckoned as NOT having "Great Faith" is immense. I have talked with countless PASTORS who either still are or were involved in this circle of fellowship and they have nothing but HORROR stories to tell. Again not just the ones OUT of it, but some still IN that are very much afraid of the more vocal men in your group that can and will do damage to their assemblies.

Slamming people? Well if by that you mean pointing out their disastrous LIFE ENDING error in decision so that others do NOT follow this poor example then again, I make no apologies neither do I feel the least bit ashamed. Do I feel terrible for the little boy whose mom and dad died needlessly ABSOLUTELY! It causes me to speak out!

Do I feel bad for the parents of the dead baby in Lousiana that lost their baby because their leadership had encouraged the whole church to follow this pattern? Not as much as I feel bad for the dead baby and the frame of mind you defend that CAUSED that needless death.

Why go on anymore? You have managed to turn this away from the FALSE DOCTRINE that I am adressing and turning it to the people who embraced it and by example promoted it.

(Ie the You mean to tell me My Pastor,Mother, Granny, Friend was WRONG! How dare you attack them! way of dodging the real issue...refusing medical help and dying needlessly is WRONG, BAD, ERROR, INEXCUSABLE. No matter how you slice it, this is one doctrine and example that obviously leads to death in the very people who you are holding up to us as examples . Where was their HEALING if that is what their FAITH told them was promised them?
again...widows....orphans....needless and sad. No glory for God, only more shame and reproach ........

[TCSQ]

Originally Posted by Rico

H.O., no one is saying you can't.

No its just that you dont have GREAT FAITH if you do! You are TRUSTING doctors NOT Trusting God.... its a subgroup in pentecost and these are some of their buzzwords. They imply that they who do NOT go to doctors have GREATER SUPERIOR FAITH while those of you that DO go to doctors, well you just dont have GREAT FAITH... its criminal in more ways than one!

[TCSQ]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Their line of thinking is no different than that of the snake handlers, who believe that if they are bitten, they won't die, and if they do, it's because their faith was lacking.

Stupidity in purest form.

EXACTAMUNDO! I remember decaders ago when I was in College, watching a McGraw Hill film called "Holy Ghost People" about the Snake Handlers there in Appalachia. They were mostly Jesus Name People, obviously Holy Ghost filled. The beginning of the film was interviews with various members of the sect, and they would be there on the couch talking about how they were baptized in the Holy Ghost and genuinely (in my estimation to avoid any further argument) were filled with the Holy Ghost and would break into praise and tongues during their various interviews.

Then the film cuts to the service where they are all singing and dancing and praising God. Sweet unlearned people in the moutnains... but then the Pastor comes on and from the pulpit he is explaing the REASONING and the FAITH that he feels is manifest in obeying (in his opinion) this "command" they SHALL take up serpents.." And in all of his speech, it becomes immediately obvious that of them all he is the most educated, speaking NOT with the vocabulary of a poor appalachian coal miner, but rather one who has the benefit of a higher education, undoubtedly college somewhere and a broad exposure to critical thought. As he is going on they are still singing and then they bring out the little boxes with the copper heads and rattlers in them. And you see all these simple men and women, Holy Gost FILLED men and women, waiting to take THEIR cue from their leader and who in their IGNORANCE are following the example and encouragement of that LEADER! I am sitting there in the hall watchng this so deeply grieved in the Holy Gost thinking "You know Lord if ANYONE in that service gets bit by the snake I hope its that LEADER! he must know better!
And sure enough WHAMMO! In a close up the snake is handed to the pastor, he holds it it is climbing up his arm, and STRIKE! It bites him sinks its fangs right IN! The camera continues as the service breaks up, the pastors arm is all swollen and they are getting ready to take him out. As the film ends the pastor obviously worried and in pain is going on about how this will not deter him, this is just a trial of his faith, etc etc etc....fade to black.

That IS exactly the kind of outcome of this Trust the Lord doctrine, FADE TO BLACK! If you asked any of the snake handlers about what you had just witnessed how it brought any glory to God the answer would be IDENTICAL to what we have read on this thread! "It brought God glory because even though my pastor got bitten by the snake and his arm is swelling and may either have to be amputated or he will die, at least his FAITH never wavered and he held on all the way!" (To error)

Thank God for the chance to speak up against this! Had the man been in the wilderness and bitten by a snake and no way to get medical attention I DO believe that God would have healed him. HOWEVER to deliberateley take UP that snake is tempting God not trusting him. And when you discover in your body some malady that calls for medical attention and you choose instead to deliberately TAKE UP that sickness or condition and REFUSE medical attention that would bring healing and relief, you deserve the outcome of such a poor decision. It is NOT great faith, it is GREAT error! And as you can see by the people under discussion here it ends in DEATH.

[QUOTE=TCSQ;569074]

Originally Posted by Rico

Live and let live, Bro.





Kind of ironic given the subject don't you think. And I am not the least bit ashamed of ANYTHING I have posted on this thread. BAD examples for people to follow will NEVER be justifiable even when done in "faith".

The fact that you "probably know" who I am talking about in another if not ALL of these cases points out another underlying reason this needs to be pointed out. This disastrous position is the basis for a circle of fellowship among some very VERY independent or rather "independent" churches where this is one of the DEFINING doctrines of their fellowship. It is this doctrine that is held out consistently in front of all their members as being as one poster called it "GREAT FAITH" .

The peer pressure and pastoral pressure to follow this example or be reckoned as NOT having "Great Faith" is immense. I have talked with countless PASTORS who either still are or were involved in this circle of fellowship and they have nothing but HORROR stories to tell. Again not just the ones OUT of it, but some still IN that are very much afraid of the more vocal men in your group that can and will do damage to their assemblies.

Slamming people? Well if by that you mean pointing out their disastrous LIFE ENDING error in decision so that others do NOT follow this poor example then again, I make no apologies neither do I feel the least bit ashamed. Do I feel terrible for the little boy whose mom and dad died needlessly ABSOLUTELY! It causes me to speak out!

Do I feel bad for the parents of the dead baby in Lousiana that lost their baby because their leadership had incouraged the whole church to follow this pattern? Not as much as I feel bad for the dead baby and the frame of mind you defend that CAUSED that needless death.

Why go on anymore? You have managed to turn this away from the FALSE DOCTRINE that I am adressing and turning it to the people who embraced it and by example promoted it.

(Ie the You mean to tell me My Pastor,Mother, Granny, Friend was WRONG! How dare you attack them! way of dodging the real issue...refusing medical help and dying needlessly is WRONG, BAD, ERROR, INEXCUSABLE. No matter how you slice it, this is one doctrine and example that obviously leads to death in the very people who you are holding up to us as examples . Where was their HEALING if that is what their FAITH told them was promised them?
again...widows....orphans....needless and sad. No glory for God, only more shame and reproach ........

If you have a lack of faith, then keep your lack of faith, but you shouldn't put down people who choose to have "GREAT FAITH" just like people in the Bible.

[Rico]

[QUOTE=TCSQ;569074]

Originally Posted by Rico

Live and let live, Bro.





Kind of ironic given the subject don't you think. And I am not the least bit ashamed of ANYTHING I have posted on this thread. BAD examples for people to follow will NEVER be justifiable even when done in "faith".

So, which is it? You do or don't apologize for calling good men of God like Brother Campbell, Brother Carrol, and Brother Chambers idiots? You apologized for it and now you are saying you aren't ashamed of anything you've posted in this thread.

The fact that you "probably know" who I am talking about in another if not ALL of these cases points out another underlying reason this needs to be pointed out. This disastrous position is the basis for a circle of fellowship among some very VERY independent or rather "independent" churches where this is one of the DEFINING doctrines of their fellowship. It is this doctrine that is held out consistently in front of all their members as being as one poster called it "GREAT FAITH" .


And I agree with him that it takes a great faith to be willing to die in the hands of Gods than trust in man's devices. I don't have that kind of faith, but I am glad there are people among us who do.

The peer pressure and pastoral pressure to follow this example or be reckoned as NOT having "Great Faith" is immense. I have talked with countless PASTORS who either still are or were involved in this circle of fellowship and they have nothing but HORROR stories to tell. Again not just the ones OUT of it, but some still IN that are very much afraid of the more vocal men in your group that can and will do damage to their assemblies.


This is bunch of HOGWASH! Brother Campbell never chastised anyone in his church for going to see a doctor. Nor did he tell anyone they didn't have faith for seeing doctors. He taught trusting God in this way very responsibly. Some people followed his lead and others didn't. Either way, no one was exalted or treated like dirt for their decision. He taught that if all you could do was trust God for a headache then trust Him with all your might.

Slamming people? Well if by that you mean pointing out their disastrous LIFE ENDING error in decision so that others do NOT follow this poor example then again, I make no apologies neither do I feel the least bit ashamed. Do I feel terrible for the little boy whose mom and dad died needlessly ABSOLUTELY! It causes me to speak out!

Do I feel bad for the parents of the dead baby in Lousiana that lost their baby because their leadership had incouraged the whole church to follow this pattern? Not as much as I feel bad for the dead baby and the frame of mind you defend that CAUSED that needless death.

You act as if going to doctors is a sure fire way of not dying from disease. I've got news for you. The medical profession is far from perfect. Look up the stats on how many people die in hospitals from diseases they caught while in the hospital for something else. Going to doctors doesn't guarantee anyone they will get better. Even doctors admit that they have no power to heal. All they can do is diagnose and treat the symptoms.

Why go on anymore? You have managed to turn this away from the FALSE DOCTRINE that I am adressing and turning it to the people who embraced it and by example promoted it.

(Ie the You mean to tell me My Pastor,Mother, Granny, Friend was WRONG! How dare you attack them! way of dodging the real issue...refusing medical help and dying needlessly is WRONG, BAD, ERROR, INEXCUSABLE. No matter how you slice it, this is one doctrine and example that obviously leads to death in the very people who you are holding up to us as examples . Where was their HEALING if that is what their FAITH told them was promised them?
again...widows....orphans....needless and sad. No glory for God, only more shame and reproach ........

What's shameful is that you can't promote going to doctors without badmouthing people who have chosen not to go to doctors and completely trust God instead. All you are doing is pointing fingers at others and saying your way is better. Your way isn't better. It's just an option that people have before them.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by TCSQ

No its just that you dont have GREAT FAITH if you do! You are TRUSTING doctors NOT Trusting God.... its a subgroup in pentecost and these are some of their buzzwords. They imply that they who do NOT go to doctors have GREATER SUPERIOR FAITH while those of you that DO go to doctors, well you just dont have GREAT FAITH... its criminal in more ways than one!

Maybe those who trust God completely do have a stronger faith than you do. If they do, what's it to you? Is this a competition to see who has more faith? That's what you are turning it into. Look, if you don't have the faith it takes to go this route, then don't. Your salvation doesn't hinge upon your choice to see or not see doctors.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by TCSQ

EXACTAMUNDO! I remember decaders ago when I was in College, watching a McGraw Hill film called "Holy Ghost People" about the Snake Handlers there in Appalachia. They were mostly Jesus Name People, obviously Holy Ghost filled. The beginning of the film was interviews with various members of the sect, and they would be there on the couch talking about how they were baptized in the Holy Ghost and genuinely (in my estimation to avoid any further argument) were filled with the Holy Ghost and would break into praise and tongues during their various interviews.

Then the film cuts to the service where they are all singing and dancing and praising God. Sweet unlearned people in the moutnains... but then the Pastor comes on and from the pulpit he is explaing the REASONING and the FAITH that he feels is manifest in obeying (in his opinion) this "command" they SHALL take up serpents.." And in all of his speech, it becomes immediately obvious that of them all he is the most educated, speaking NOT with the vocabulary of a poor appalachian coal miner, but rather one who has the benefit of a higher education, undoubtedly college somewhere and a broad exposure to critical thought. As he is going on they are still singing and then they bring out the little boxes with the copper heads and rattlers in them. And you see all these simple men and women, Holy Gost FILLED men and women, waiting to take THEIR cue from their leader and who in their IGNORANCE are following the example and encouragement of that LEADER! I am sitting there in the hall watchng this so deeply grieved in the Holy Gost thinking "You know Lord if ANYONE in that service gets bit by the snake I hope its that LEADER! he must know better!
And sure enough WHAMMO! In a close up the snake is handed to the pastor, he holds it it is climbing up his arm, and STRIKE! It bites him sinks its fangs right IN! The camera continues as the service breaks up, the pastors arm is all swollen and they are getting ready to take him out. As the film ends the pastor obviously worried and in pain is going on about how this will not deter him, this is just a trial of his faith, etc etc etc....fade to black.

That IS exactly the kind of outcome of this Trust the Lord doctrine, FADE TO BLACK! If you asked any of the snake handlers about what you had just witnessed how it brought any glory to God the answer would be IDENTICAL to what we have read on this thread! "It brought God glory because even though my pastor got bitten by the snake and his arm is swelling and may either have to be amputated or he will die, at least his FAITH never wavered and he held on all the way!" (To error)

Thank God for the chance to speak up against this! Had the man been in the wilderness and bitten by a snake and no way to get medical attention I DO believe that God would have healed him. HOWEVER to deliberateley take UP that snake is tempting God not trusting him. And when you discover in your body some malady that calls for medical attention and you choose instead to deliberately TAKE UP that sickness or condition and REFUSE medical attention that would bring healing and relief, you deserve the outcome of such a poor decision. It is NOT great faith, it is GREAT error! And as you can see by the people under discussion here it ends in DEATH.

This is hilarious! You've never handled a snake and now you think it's your place to decide whether the snake handlers do so in faith? It shouldn't surprise me, since you also seem to think it's ok to call men of God idiots.

[Rico]

[QUOTE=Oneness Man;569113]

Originally Posted by TCSQ

If you have a lack of faith, then keep your lack of faith, but you shouldn't put down people who choose to have "GREAT FAITH" just like people in the Bible.

A to the MEN! I don't have the faith it takes to never see a doctor, but I sure am not going to run down those who do.