"All things are lawful" - Page 2

LUKE2447 · #11 07-31-2008, 01:55 PM

RICO, Is there still sin that can sin a believer to hell? If so how can ALL things be lawful! Without law there can be no transgression per Paul.

Praxeas · #12 07-31-2008, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

From a non-OSAS standpoint how does one deal with this verse by Paul.

1Co 6:12 "All things are lawful for me," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful for me," but I will not be enslaved by anything.

1Co 10:23 "All things are lawful," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful," but not all things build up.

I have my own opinion but would like to seek the knowledge of the people on the board which cover many views.

Thanks!

I just addressed this, You have to look at what Paul said in context. In one case he was speaking of eating foods offered to idols. He was also speaking of meats and other things that some believers would stumble if they knew you were eating. Read back to Acts 15 and the issue of Jews, Gentiles and the law. The gentiles were told to keep certain food laws because there were Jewish believers or potential jewish believers in each city. Paul warns we can eat these things but if it causes a brother to stumble we should not.

A second more exact meaning is, we are not bound by the law. All things are lawful to him (as a jew), but not keeping the law in some cases might not be a good idea. He said in the same context then, to the Jew he becomes a jew, to the gentiles he is a gentile etc etc

Praxeas · #13 07-31-2008, 02:24 PM

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...9&postcount=73

LUKE2447 · #14 07-31-2008, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I just addressed this, You have to look at what Paul said in context. In one case he was speaking of eating foods offered to idols. He was also speaking of meats and other things that some believers would stumble if they knew you were eating. Read back to Acts 15 and the issue of Jews, Gentiles and the law. The gentiles were told to keep certain food laws because there were Jewish believers or potential jewish believers in each city. Paul warns we can eat these things but if it causes a brother to stumble we should not.

A second more exact meaning is, we are not bound by the law. All things are lawful to him (as a jew), but not keeping the law in some cases might not be a good idea. He said in the same context then, to the Jew he becomes a jew, to the gentiles he is a gentile etc etc

sorry but here is the problem with that in reference to Acts I never said it was Gentiles Paul took but Jewish brethren. Here is the big things....

The gentiles should keep THESE things(being 4) so not to offend the Jews but as you had said they could do these things as they are free or lawful... now. WELL then how do you explain the sexual immorality part? I guess it is lawful as it is in the same context. So as long as people you are around are not offended, HIT IT!

LUKE2447 · #15 07-31-2008, 02:51 PM

Prax is he saying ALL things are lawful just in food or are ALL THINGS LAWFUL? I don't believe in OSAS as that is what this text would have to say from a literal standpoint.

Praxeas · #16 07-31-2008, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

sorry but here is the problem with that in reference to Acts I never said it was Gentiles Paul took but Jewish brethren. Here is the big things....

The gentiles should keep THESE things(being 4) so not to offend the Jews but as you had said they could do these things as they are free or lawful... now. WELL then how do you explain the sexual immorality part? I guess it is lawful as it is in the same context. So as long as people you are around are not offended HIT IT!

huh? I never said one thing about Paul taking gentiles to do anything. Please re-read what i said and the read Acts 15 not Acts 21

My post has absolutely NOTHING to do with what happened in Acts 21, however it does support my post in that the Jews kept the law and Paul would become a Jew to the Jews and a gentile to the gentiles.

Again please re-read what I posted again and if you disagree can you quote me and then refute what I said specifically? I pointed out Paul explains the food issue and it is IN the very context of the verse you posted about lawful. You are quoting that out of context. Look at the context as I tried to explain it to you.

Sorry but I just don't see the problem my post has from what you posted here

Paul NEVER said they can fornicate if nobody is around.

Jack Shephard · #17 07-31-2008, 02:56 PM

I follow the belief that many things are against the law in the days we live like murder, rape, stealing, etc. But what I believe he, Paul, is saying is different than what we see as being lawful, like as in breaking the law and sin. Paul is writting to saved believers. I believe that he is telling them that all things are ok for you to do, but not benefitial. I don't think that he is talk specifically about sin cause if he was then the verse would not make sense. I think he is addressing what the church at that time might have been going through. Saying it like this, you can do most things, but will doing most things be benefitial to you?

Praxeas · #18 07-31-2008, 03:09 PM

1Co 6:12 "All things are lawful for me," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful for me," but I will not be enslaved by anything.
1Co 6:13 "Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food"--and God will destroy both one and the other. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.

1Co 10:23 "All things are lawful," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful," but not all things build up.
1Co 10:24 Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor.
1Co 10:25 Eat whatever is sold in the meat market without raising any question on the ground of conscience.

Paul is not saying we can live immoral lives. Food is nothing.

(1Co 10:31) So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.

(1Co 10:32) Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God,

(1Co 10:33) just as I try to please everyone in everything I do, not seeking my own advantage, but that of many, that they may be saved.

My NET bible commentary has a different view here. They claim this "all things are lawful to me" is what the Corinthians say, not Paul and that Paul was correcting their view.

Let me quote the NET

1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
1Co 6:12 "All things are lawful for me," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful for me," but I will not be enslaved by anything.
1Co 6:13 "Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food"--and God will destroy both one and the other. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.
1Co 6:14 And God raised the Lord and will also raise us up by his power.
1Co 6:15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never!
1Co 6:16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, "The two will become one flesh."
1Co 6:17 But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.
1Co 6:18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.
1Co 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own,
1Co 6:20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

Now, you have to remember that Gentiles were not required to keep the law. They were not forced to be circumcised etc etc. The only thing they admonished the Gentiles was the food thing and fornication (sexual impurity). Paul later explains the food issue more. So the Corinthians were kinda "drunk" on this idea of not being under the law of Moses and Paul was correcting their understanding that they can not just go do whatever they wanted. Thus his writings on food and why and his writings on fornication.

Read from chapter 5 through chapter 10 and you will see Paul specifically addresses foods and fornication or sexual immorality. This is the context of "all things are lawful"

Evang.Benincasa · #19 07-31-2008, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeatlast

OP's are to skeered of that verse to comment Luke.

Try putting the verse into the context of the chapter, and you will find it does permit anyone to shoot heroin and watch porn.

The apostle is NOT saying he is free to do as he very well pleases, but will not because it will not prosper him, nor the Kingdom of God. To think that the apostle is saying that he can do whatever he wants and still remained saved would be the same as saying he was an Epicurean.

To think that Paul is saying that he was saying that everything was legal and he would be free of sin, then why does he name sins and then tell everyone to abstain?

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

LUKE2447 · #20 07-31-2008, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

1Co 6:12 "All things are lawful for me," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful for me," but I will not be enslaved by anything.
1Co 6:13 "Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food"--and God will destroy both one and the other. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.

1Co 10:23 "All things are lawful," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful," but not all things build up.
1Co 10:24 Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor.
1Co 10:25 Eat whatever is sold in the meat market without raising any question on the ground of conscience.

Paul is not saying we can live immoral lives. Food is nothing.

(1Co 10:31) So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.

(1Co 10:32) Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God,

(1Co 10:33) just as I try to please everyone in everything I do, not seeking my own advantage, but that of many, that they may be saved.

My NET bible commentary has a different view here. They claim this "all things are lawful to me" is what the Corinthians say, not Paul and that Paul was correcting their view.

Let me quote the NET

1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
1Co 6:12 "All things are lawful for me," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful for me," but I will not be enslaved by anything.
1Co 6:13 "Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food"--and God will destroy both one and the other. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.
1Co 6:14 And God raised the Lord and will also raise us up by his power.
1Co 6:15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never!
1Co 6:16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, "The two will become one flesh."
1Co 6:17 But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.
1Co 6:18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.
1Co 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own,
1Co 6:20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

Now, you have to remember that Gentiles were not required to keep the law. They were not forced to be circumcised etc etc. The only thing they admonished the Gentiles was the food thing and fornication (sexual impurity). Paul later explains the food issue more. So the Corinthians were kinda "drunk" on this idea of not being under the law of Moses and Paul was correcting their understanding that they can not just go do whatever they wanted. Thus his writings on food and why and his writings on fornication.

Read from chapter 5 through chapter 10 and you will see Paul specifically addresses foods and fornication or sexual immorality. This is the context of "all things are lawful"

sorry Prax I quickly read it and confused 15 with 21!

I am kind of busy while scrolling here and there.

I want to make myself clear. I agree food is nothing when it comes to eternity or anything like that! It though is a good thing not to eat those things as God had a reason for it and it was health related. It thoug should not be a issue of contention in the sense of fellowship but more of good stewardship of the body. Making it a issue of contention per heaven or hell has never been my point. Paul is referring to food under the meaning you demonstrated in the sense of 1 Cor and others BUT the text does not allow for you to say so that it won't offend others due to the liberty of your conscience. As the text includes sexual immorality!