Not Enough Relationship Taught

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by jaxfam6

hush your mouth......

you mean to tell me that Relationship does NOT equal letting go of everything else????

Holy high heels and mini skirts I got that one wrong.

NOW, I will say this... I do believe that EVANGELISTS (by and large, being general here, not implying everyone, etc etc) ... I say I do believe evangelists should perhaps spend a little more time explaining just what a personal relationship with God actually entails.

I think that would go a long way to solving the problem of 'shallow Christians' the original poster mentioned.

[Kings Kid]

Originally Posted by POWERUP

I Will Never Forget The First Time I Was Preaching In My Home Church, And I Said During My Message You Need To Have A Personal
Relationship With Jesus.......lots Of Silence, More Silence.

All They Could Think Of Was...he's Changing His Doctrine.

I Was Not The Pastor, But One Of The Associate Pastors. All I Was Trying To Say Was We Need To Be More In Love With Jesus.

All That To Say This.

The Only Real Problem I Have Seen Through The Years, Is That We Really Have Never (upc) Taught Enough On Relationship With Jesus.

Preach A Message....get Them In The Altar....shake Them....holler In
Thier Ear, And Make Sure They Speak In Tongues.

And Thats The End. And There You Have A Really Shallow Christian.

Oh Yea. And If They Don't Last. They Didn't Get A Real Good Case Of The Holy Ghost!!

Come On Guys, Lets Teach People How To Make It.

I agree with you that they don't teach enough about having a relationship with Jesus. What I have noticed in most conservative upc churches they teach having a relationship with the doctrine instead of with Jesus.

Originally Posted by Kings Kid

I agree with you that they don't teach enough about having a relationship with Jesus. What I have noticed in most conservative upc churches they teach having a relationship with the doctrine instead of with Jesus.

Jesus said 'If you continue in my Word, then are you my disciples indeed, and you shall know the Truth, and the Truth shall make you free.'

The apostle John said 'Let that which you have heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you have heard from the beginning abides in you, then you will abide in the Son, and [or 'even'] in the Father.'

Doctrine is necessary to a 'relationship' with the Lord. It is through the TEACHING (doctrine) that we hear of the Lord, come to know Him, dwell in Him, etc.

To divorce doctrine from relationship is to divorce the believer from Christ.

[Amos]

Originally Posted by Eliseus

Jesus said 'If you continue in my Word, then are you my disciples indeed, and you shall know the Truth, and the Truth shall make you free.'

The apostle John said 'Let that which you have heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you have heard from the beginning abides in you, then you will abide in the Son, and [or 'even'] in the Father.'

Doctrine is necessary to a 'relationship' with the Lord. It is through the TEACHING (doctrine) that we hear of the Lord, come to know Him, dwell in Him, etc.

To divorce doctrine from relationship is to divorce the believer from Christ.

Exactly.

I am always confused when I see people attempt to devalue the importance of doctrine, as if it can be abandoned in favor of "relationship."

You can't have one without the other. That is the epitome of a false dichotomy.

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

The Romans obeyed "that form of doctrine" they received. Then, and only then, did they become servants of righteousness.

When the woman at the well talked with Jesus about worship, He said, "Ye worship ye know not what."

True worshippers must worship Him in spirit and in Truth.

That requires doctrine.

[Kings Kid]

So what you are saying is that we are really saved by doctrine and not by the blood of christ.

[Amos]

Originally Posted by Kings Kid

So what you are saying is that we are really saved by doctrine and not by the blood of christ.

Where in the world did you get that?

You cannot appropriate the benefits of the Blood without obeying the Scriptures--docrine, if you will.

We are saved by grace, through faith.

But you don't even have any idea how to believe without the preaching of the Gospel--and there comes doctrine again.

Why do you want to separate the doctrine from Christ?

John called Him "the Word."

You keep trying to create these false dichotomies.

Doctrine and faith aren't "either-or."

They are inspeparable.

[POWERUP]

Okay. Let me see if I can say this correctly. When someone comes to the altar, a lot of times we assume they are there for salvation. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Your standing there getting ready to "PRAY SOMEBODY THROUGH". And they say I'm a homosexual, and have hiv.

And then that ,lets lay on some hands, to recieve the Holy Ghost, just went out the door.

Your mouth falls open and you just stand there. Looking around for some help. And I'm sorry, but the first thing you should ask, is not. Do you have the Holy Ghost?

Have watched this happen to countless ministers, and altar workers.

My point. You had better be led of the spirit. I know that if they don't have Jesus, they need him, but, you have to deal with the issues at hand first.

[Jack Shephard]

You know it is almost preached like a cliche' from time to time. It is something that has to be covered, but it ain't followed. I have been blessed over the years to be in churches that the leaders and lay are good about showing how to have a relationship with God. Relationships-real ones-are a day in and day out thing. I am NOWHERE near were I would love to be in my relationship with God. But one thing I know it that if I do not show Him affection He still will show it to me, because He loves me so much. I can never love Him like He loves me, but I can sure try! Cliche' or not there is nothing more important than your relationship with God! Second, a close second is the relationship with your family.

Originally Posted by POWERUP

Okay. Let me see if I can say this correctly. When someone comes to the altar, a lot of times we assume they are there for salvation. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Your standing there getting ready to "PRAY SOMEBODY THROUGH". And they say I'm a homosexual, and have hiv.

And then that ,lets lay on some hands, to recieve the Holy Ghost, just went out the door.

Your mouth falls open and you just stand there. Looking around for some help. And I'm sorry, but the first thing you should ask, is not. Do you have the Holy Ghost?

Have watched this happen to countless ministers, and altar workers.

My point. You had better be led of the spirit. I know that if they don't have Jesus, they need him, but, you have to deal with the issues at hand first.

I'm not sure I follow you.

I have seen quite a bit of distracting wackiness at altars, and I cannot count how many times I have cringed at what many 'altar workers' attempt to do.

BUT, i have also never seen where an altar worker was 'stupified' at some need or situation that a 'seeker' brought forward. If anything, every altar worker I have ever known, including the most out of touch weirdos I have met at the altar, would immediately, in the situation you described, say to the person 'That's perfectly okay, because I believe God is a healer, and we're gonna pray RIGHT NOW for your healing and deliverance.' And then commence to praying.

And afterwards, they would talk to the individual about faith in God, repentance, salvation, and healing, and God's promises, and so forth.

So I don't know what kind of churches you have been experiencing this strangeness in, but it certainly has not been anything lik emy experiences. And I have 'gone to church' from Texas to Tennessee to Washington State and several places in between.