LADIES please take my Holiness Test Thanks

[Sister Alvear]

I enjoy ready opinions and most of the time that is just what they are...Mine included...

Standards vary depending the area, the group we run with and many other factors...however right and wrong does not change anywhere we might be.

[Subdued]

Originally Posted by My Own Eyes

Bro E, you make it sound as easy as I wish it could be.

The truth is that I AM actually trying to start over. I am trying to rebuild, but it's not as easy as you make it sound. I don't deny that i am stubborn and thick-headed and difficult, but even beyond that, I have no concept of God outside of the fear. In my mind it is almost impossible to think of God separately from the capricious and malicious bully I came to believe that he was.

It is one thing to say that God is gracious and loving and good and trustworthy, but the voice of my experience speaks louder. It says that he is waiting to punish, that he is a hard taskmaster, than nothing is ever good enough, that he asks too much and punishes you when you fail.

Which is not to say that I am right, in fact the tiny bit of faith that I have hopes that I am wrong.

But how can I develop a relationship with someone that I don't like? How can I love someone that I don't trust? How can I follow someone that I don't believe has my best welfare in mind?

I think that you have a much different view of God than I do, and I think that you cannot imagine how anyone cannot love God, cannot think that he is good or trustworthy, and I don't think you can understand why someone would be wary of a relationship with him.

I think the ball is in God's court. Obviously nothing can change until he someone shows me that he's different than I think He is. I don't pretend that is going to be an easy accomplishment. I am very skittish, and twitchy, and suspicious of it all.

Mich, just wondering if you're reading the Bible on a regular basis. Also, what are you doing in order to get reacquainted with the One who created you. I'm not sure anyone can show you that He's different than you think He is - it's something you will have to find out on your own. Hopefully, you're spending a great deal of time with the Lord. (How else can you get to know someone?)

Beginning any relationship is a risk and can cause a person to feel skittish, twitchy, and suspicious; but it seems to me that you've been willing to take such risks with other humans; why not, then, take this same risk with the God of all?

I think you know that God cares for you and has your best interests at heart MUCH more so than any human -- although, you won't admit that. (Perhaps it's only head-knowledge right now, rather than heart-knowledge.) Regardless, IF you are serious about re-learning who and what God is, then the ONLY way to do that is to take the risk and just DO it. The Lord will NOT keep Himself unknown to you, if you are sincerely seeking Him.

I totally disagree that the ball is in God's court, as you say. It's completely up to YOU to build this relationship with Jesus. HE waits for US. (I don't think you'd like a pushy God.)

You asked how you can love a God you don't trust, or build a relationship with Him if you don't like Him. The answer to those questions is: You just DO it. Take the plunge - take the risk... it's the safest risk you will ever take... which, in reality, you know. You won't overcome this fear you talk about until you take one step towards God, then another & another. Standing still won't change a thing. I think that you've become quite comfortable where you are, frankly. The time is NOW. I mean, what's the worst that could happen... you find out you've been right all along? What's the best that could happen... you find out you've been wrong?

[MissBrattified]

Good post, Bro. E.

The first step to God is to believe that He IS, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

So:

1. Believe that He is.
2. Seek Him. Diligently.

And I would seek Him directly. Not ideas about Him or an objective understanding OF Him. That's just looking for religion.

[My Own Eyes]

Originally Posted by Subdued

Mich, just wondering if you're reading the Bible on a regular basis. Also, what are you doing in order to get reacquainted with the One who created you. I'm not sure anyone can show you that He's different than you think He is - it's something you will have to find out on your own. Hopefully, you're spending a great deal of time with the Lord. (How else can you get to know someone?)

Beginning any relationship is a risk and can cause a person to feel skittish, twitchy, and suspicious; but it seems to me that you've been willing to take such risks with other humans; why not, then, take this same risk with the God of all?

I think you know that God cares for you and has your best interests at heart MUCH more so than any human -- although, you won't admit that. (Perhaps it's only head-knowledge right now, rather than heart-knowledge.) Regardless, IF you are serious about re-learning who and what God is, then the ONLY way to do that is to take the risk and just DO it. The Lord will NOT keep Himself unknown to you, if you are sincerely seeking Him.

I totally disagree that the ball is in God's court, as you say. It's completely up to YOU to build this relationship with Jesus. HE waits for US. (I don't think you'd like a pushy God.)

You asked how you can love a God you don't trust, or build a relationship with Him if you don't like Him. The answer to those questions is: You just DO it. Take the plunge - take the risk... it's the safest risk you will ever take... which, in reality, you know. You won't overcome this fear you talk about until you take one step towards God, then another & another. Standing still won't change a thing. I think that you've become quite comfortable where you are, frankly. The time is NOW. I mean, what's the worst that could happen... you find out you've been right all along? What's the best that could happen... you find out you've been wrong?

I am giving you the benefit of the doubt, and assuming that you meant this to be encouraging. However, I don't think you quite understand where I am coming from. And that's ok. I am lucky to have several close friends who have gone through similar experiences. Some have made it out the other side, some are further along in their journey, and some are even "worse" off then I am.

You may think that I am "standing still", but I see how far I've come.

I originally left this forum, because the very mention of church, the Bible, the ministry and various other things would cause great anger to well up inside of me. I had so many triggers that a conversation with me was like walking through a landmine. (Ask Ronzo, he got blown up quite a few times).

For months, I couldn't pick up a Bible, or even listen to a Christian song without getting so angry. I think most of the people on this forum would have had to have their ears annointed with oil if they had heard what kind of "prayers" I said during that time.

So you are partially right when you say that I am "comfortable" where I am. Who wouldn't be when my previous states were were bound by fear and then possessed by wrath? But comfort or not, I recognize that life is a journey, and there is no such thing as standing still.

[My Own Eyes]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Good post, Bro. E.

The first step to God is to believe that He IS, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

So:

1. Believe that He is.
2. Seek Him. Diligently.

And I would seek Him directly. Not ideas about Him or an objective understanding OF Him. That's just looking for religion.

Well, I believe the first part. For whatever reason, that is the only thing that I never doubted. And I do believe that I am seeking him....though "diligently" is a matter of opinion. However....(and it seems that there has to be a however anytime its me talking), I don't believe "that he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him". And therein lies the problem.

I remember Abi, that it was in response to one of your posts that I originally admitted that I didn't like God at all. And I remember that you were so shocked, I could just picture you looking at the screen with your mouth dropped open, like "Did she just say, what I think she said?". For some reason that just popped into my head.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by My Own Eyes

Well, I believe the first part. For whatever reason, that is the only thing that I never doubted. And I do believe that I am seeking him....though "diligently" is a matter of opinion. However....(and it seems that there has to be a however anytime its me talking), I don't believe "that he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him". And therein lies the problem.

I remember Abi, that it was in response to one of your posts that I originally admitted that I didn't like God at all. And I remember that you were so shocked, I could just picture you looking at the screen with your mouth dropped open, like "Did she just say, what I think she said?". For some reason that just popped into my head.

Lol! You have shocked me. Quite a few times. But I doubt if you shock God.

I like the definition of "diligently seek":

From G1537 and G2212; to search out, that is, (figuratively) investigate, crave, demand, (by Hebraism) worship: - en- (re-) quire, seek after (carefully, diligently).

What reward do you think it is talking about? What kind of rewarder is He?

[My Own Eyes]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Lol! You have shocked me. Quite a few times. But I doubt if you shock God.

This made me laugh, but it also gave me a realization. If its true that God is unshockable, it's something that I could believe, and actually something that I would even view as a good characteristic. Which, I guess, is as good a starting point as any

[My Own Eyes]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I like the definition of "diligently seek":

From G1537 and G2212; to search out, that is, (figuratively) investigate, crave, demand, (by Hebraism) worship: - en- (re-) quire, seek after (carefully, diligently).

What reward do you think it is talking about? What kind of rewarder is He?

I don't know. I was thinking before that I would be more likely to believe a sentence that said "he is a punisher of those who don't diligently seek him", because I seem to connect God with negative consequences.

But I imagine, the reward might be that they find him.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by My Own Eyes

I don't know. I was thinking before that I would be more likely to be a sentence that said "he is a punisher of those who don't diligently seek him", because I seem to connect God with negative consequences.

But I imagine, the reward might be that they find him.

So if you don't believe that He is a rewarder is it because you feel that you haven't found Him? Or that you haven't figured Him out?

[My Own Eyes]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

So if you don't believe that He is a rewarder is it because you feel that you haven't found Him? Or that you haven't figured Him out?

I don't think that figuring him out is even conceivable. As for finding him....It's sometimes hard to tell if its that I found a counterfit or if he really is all the bad things that I think.

On a "good" day, a hopeful day, I will believe that I must have had a twisted and distorted image of him, and a pseudo-relationship that was built on a false foundation.

On a "bad" day, a pessimistic day, I will believe that he is not to be trusted, capricious, and callous, and wants nothing more than to make us all suffer.