Universal Health Care

[Nina]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I would be proud to stand in a fight beside a Texan who spoke like that.

Brother,

Ron Paul is from Texas and feels the same as Ferd here.

Nina

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

I'm tired of paying for the uninsured. It's time we all pay into the system for our health care. Every last one of us.

Then start by paying your "fair share" of the Social Security taxes. I'll take you a lot more seriously when you do that. I'm paying for YOUR free loading ways, Commissar.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Nina

Brother,

Ron Paul is from Texas and feels the same as Ferd here.

Nina

Nina, you know that I love you as if you were my own blood kin sister!

But Ron Paul...? LOL!

Sorry... I was making an exception for my Brother Ferd- not opening the flood gates for every looney from the Lone Star State; from Ross Perot to Ron Paul to what next? For AFF's IAINTMOVING?

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

Your premiums are already so high primarily because you're paying for increasing numbers of uninsured people not paying their bills. Bro...if you really want people shouldering more of their own weight...single payer is the way to go.

LOL! you keep arguing that single payer isnt what is being proposed but you say that single payer is the way to go.


now both may be true, but single payer means government mandated price controls and NO COMPITITION

that is the number one recipe for disaster!

and single payer in England has led to such things as turning sheets over instead of washing them to cut costs and other nice debates like not treating fat people for fat related issues because they got themselves fat.

YOU are the one who is confused...and is looking for a hand out.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Nina, you know that I love you as if you were my own blood kin sister!

But Ron Paul...? LOL!

Sorry... I was making an exception for my Brother Ferd- not opening the flood gates for every looney from the Lone Star State; from Ross Perot to Ron Paul to what next? For AFF's IAINTMOVING?

thank you. I was getting worried that I had just gone insane.

whew! Ron Paul is a first class nut.

[Nina]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Nina, you know that I love you as if you were my own blood kin sister!

But Ron Paul...? LOL!

Sorry... I was making an exception for my Brother Ferd- not opening the flood gates for every looney from the Lone Star State; from Ross Perot to Ron Paul to what next? For AFF's IAINTMOVING?

Well Brother,

I mean this in a good way, You sound a lot like Ron Paul, fiscally speaking.

Nina

[Rico]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

But that's not what universal health insurance is about. I'll explain it again Ferd. Your premiums are rising higher and higher primarily because more and more people are uninsured and not able to pay their medical bills. Health care providers hand this loss down by raising the cost of care. Your insurance company has to cover that, so they raise your premiums. Ferd...the reason your premiums are so high is because your paying for those who can't pay their bills.

A Universal System is about everyone contributing something to the cost of their health care. Everyone would be paying something into the system and since providers would be being paid, they'd have no loss to hand down. Since there would be no loss to hand down, private insurers would be able to lower your premiums.

Do you like paying for millions of uninsured people with higher premiums or do you think all Americans should pay something into the system that provides them health care?

This all sounds good, but it's off the mark. The reason premiums are as high as they are is because the healthcare system in this country is profit driven. It's all about making money. Insurance companies are in business to make money, period. Granted, the uninsured are part of the problem, but they're not the sole reason why premiums are as high as they are. Greed is the reason.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Rico

This all sounds good, but it's off the mark. The reason premiums are as high as they are is because the healthcare system in this country is profit driven. It's all about making money. Insurance companies are in business to make money, period. Granted, the uninsured are part of the problem, but they're not the sole reason why premiums are as high as they are. Greed is the reason.

Most of the hospitals in the US, the place where most of the expensive healthcare is given are not-for-profit. The insurance plans are a mixed bag. My wife is a senior manager in the nation's largest not-for-profit hospital accounts payable system. Yet our health insurance provider there is the largest private for-profit entity, Blue Cross/Blue Shield. Looking at their numbers I see them greedily raking about 5% into their net income. Sheesh, you wonder how they stay in business.

The largest HMO in the country is Kaiser Permanente and they have $34.4 billion in operating revenue with about $1.4 billion of net income. Assuming that they pay their "fair share" of the taxes, the share holders must receive something under 3% on total revenue. Those are slim margins. Not much room for greed here.

For comparison purposes, my employer - a privately held IT services provider operates on a profit margin of between 25 - 30 percent. And no one has called them "greedy." Hey, they took me in from off the streets, they must have some heart.

But those are big numbers overall in the healthcare field. And what's more, the entire U.S. healthcare industry equates to something like 20% of the entire US economy. One fifth! That's huge. If a single political party could get their hands on one fifth of the largest economy in the world, then they would become the most powerful political force in the world.

Ah... now we see where the greed really lies. The free market (more or less; often less) US health care system is open and entrepeneurs can offer services like medical billing and record keeping services. A lot of the "work from home" radio comercials direct people into these programs.

Also, a doctor can hang his or her shingle up anywhere they want. If they prefer a rural setting and don't mind a bit less income, then that's where they go. If they're a hard charging alpha type and want big bucks and the cutting edge then they can go to any city they want. That's freedom.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

But that's not what universal health insurance is about. I'll explain it again Ferd. Your premiums are rising higher and higher primarily because more and more people are uninsured and not able to pay their medical bills. Health care providers hand this loss down by raising the cost of care. Your insurance company has to cover that, so they raise your premiums. Ferd...the reason your premiums are so high is because your paying for those who can't pay their bills.

A Universal System is about everyone contributing something to the cost of their health care. Everyone would be paying something into the system and since providers would be being paid, they'd have no loss to hand down. Since there would be no loss to hand down, private insurers would be able to lower your premiums.

Do you like paying for millions of uninsured people with higher premiums or do you think all Americans should pay something into the system that provides them health care?

Ferd's premiums have been rising dramatically since the 1980's for a variety of reasons. One of the biggest factors was the operating expense of the new imaging devices and other new technical gadgetry. The same things that save our lives also eat a hole in our wallets. A lot of that increase has been mitigated by the predictable leveling off of costs that you see in all the other electronics type industries. But there was a huge hiccup that put a lot of providers out of business.

This also led to consolidation and other instabilities in the industry. It was a bumpy time. Also, we were faced with expensive new diseases like AIDS and obesity. Added to that, we found ways of keeping cancer patients alive longer - that's a very expensive proposition; but not one that I hope to have to debate to justify the expense.

We have an aging population- that's going to be increasingly expensive. And we have illegal immigrants who are treated for free and disproportionately take away from our common pool of resources. But I've noticed that your DNC rhetoric carefully avoids that issue.

The most galling medical expense that I'm paying for right now is Democratic Presidential candidate John Edward's $20 million mansion. He made over $200 million dollars telling juries that silicone breast implants were unsafe. That was all a scam and bogus "science." Silicone is now right back on the market again and being implanted. But Edwards and the Dems get to keep the $200 million.

And now, in addition to telling us how to live, we see him operating a Hedge Fund that funnels billions of dollars off shore into a variety of tax havens just like the Kennedys have used to years to protect their moonshine money from the prohibition era "revenuers."

The Dems have been scamming and robbing us for generations. They founded the gangland underworld in the Northeast and then founded Las Vegas to move it out west. They invented American politival corruption with Boss Tweed and Tammeny Hall and stole 22 electoral votes in the fraudulant elections in King County, Washington and Milwaukee, WI, in 2004.

"Universal Coverage" will not address any of these problems. It will only serve to fund more of them.

[Pragmatist]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

Hey, a lot of Americans can't afford it. It's not right to make them choose between living with a roof over their heads or having health insurance. Eventually the premiums would rise until even more cannot afford insurance, and then they'd rise more...until even you're unable to afford insurance.

I assume you don't have kids. I have to have health insurance for my son and my wife. It's my duty as a father to see to it that they can see the doctor when they need to.

We do have a sweet baby girl and we have individual insurance. We have a high deductible plan and pay most expenses out of pocket so we are very aware of how much health care costs. We need a more market driven health care system, rather than a government operated one.