Gimmicks, Programs and Performances

[Ron]

Programs in and of themselves are just a means to an end.

Sadly, the Church a lot of times has made them an end in and of themselves.

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Malvaro

what tribe am I from???? tell me, tell me.... pretty please....

I dunno, the church divided itself up based on who lived in what part of the city. I think we were the tribe of Levi...closest to the church.

I think the tribe of Zebulon was way out in Aurora!

[Thad]

Originally Posted by keith4him

Here is the article:

Painful Decline
Saddleback Church assumes Purpose Driven, scales back programs.
Brad A. Greenberg | posted 11/21/2006 08:57AM


The Purpose Driven Life remains number two on the cba hardcover bestseller list. But Purpose Driven the organization is over. Created amid the unprecedented popularity of Rick Warren's book, Purpose Driven ministries has lost its CEO, seen its staff reduced by a third, and significantly drawn back its services. No longer a separate entity, it is being overseen by the staff of Saddleback Church, where Warren is senior pastor.

Related articles and links



"Purpose Driven as an organization, in a sense, really doesn't exist anymore," Jon Walker, Saddleback's pastor of strategic communications, told CT.

The most notable change will be to Purpose Driven Church conferences, which have trained more than 300,000 pastors in church growth. Saddleback will still host the annual conference at the Lake Forest, California, megachurch in May. But smaller conferences will be held less frequently. In addition, there will be no more nationwide 40 Days of Purpose campaigns, Walker said, though the program will be offered to churches individually.

Saddleback considers January 2005 to be the beginning of Purpose Driven, which grew as Warren's book sold millions upon millions of copies—25 million to date.

"The success of The Purpose Driven Life and 40 Days of Purpose was a God-sent wave for which we are grateful, and we tried to be good stewards of the blessing," Walker said. "However, it was inevitable that their popularity would crest and then settle into a long-term ministry of support."

Purpose Driven carried out the first round of layoffs in July, while Warren preached in 14 countries across Africa and Asia. Saddleback leadership had hoped the cuts would be enough. Warren and his wife, Kay, even donated $2 million to cover a deficit at Purpose Driven and hopefully save a few jobs.

But a second round of layoffs couldn't be avoided. From a peak of 160 employees, Purpose Driven laid off 30 staff members while another 24 positions were eliminated through attrition.

Saddleback plans to invest more resources in Warren's newest project, his global P.E.A.C.E. plan: planting churches, equipping leaders, assisting the poor, caring for the sick, and educating the next generation. Saddleback leaders hope P.E.A.C.E. can achieve Purpose Driven levels of popularity without the bust.

"It's two very different things," Walker said. "Purpose Driven was training for church growth. … P.E.A.C.E is more of a long-term missions thrust. There is not a product or a trend or anything that is associated with it. It is a long-term thing."

Thanks Keith

some may not believe it but they would be surprised the UPC pastors who were flocking to this conference. I know a conservative from CA. who went and tried to impliment some of this stuff in his church. that's why I asked earlier why so many are condemning Yet run after these trends.

anyhow, personally, I'm kind of glad it's dying out. I've even noticed that Jakes is scaling back his conferneces too have you ?

Originally Posted by Malvaro

...corporate programs began to grow as individual outreach efforts began to decline and churches sought to find a "stop-gap" fix.... can one locate an instance where the early church had to rely on corporate outreachs? no....

Great comment here... amazing, in fact.

Originally Posted by Thad

some cannot be satisfied with the anointing God gave them.

I know many will not admit it, but many Ideas have been studied and copied from the evangelicals and charismatics and then thrust upon our churches. i don't understand how we are so quick to condemn these people but turn around and impliment many of their programs , styles, Ideas , music, and on it goes

Another valid question, in my opinion.

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

Another valid question, in my opinion.

Lets lower the bar on how we do church, and raise the call to discipleship and be a follower of Jesus Christ.

[Thad]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

Another valid question, in my opinion.

thanks steadfast.

as i said, several in CA. have attended Rick W's conference and impimented his programs

Originally Posted by Kutless

I don't know if this applies here, excuse my ignorance. But some people have specific talents.

Maybe someone could write a very effective drama or come up with a great idea to bring in people. Why not take advantage?

I find absolutely nothing wrong with what you say. In fact, I think some programs and gimmicks can be beneficial. What troubles me is when we foolishly think that these programs can compensate for a lack of Apostolic vision and true spiritual sensitivity.

Originally Posted by keith4him

Lets lower the bar on how we do church, and raise the call to discipleship and be a follower of Jesus Christ.

As I said earlier, I'm not against programs, gimmicks and such. My concern, as it sounds like yours is, may be summarized as follows: Why do we need programs to incite us to do what a real relationship with God should do on it's own?

I do think there are some that like the 'time constraints' of programs so that their reponsibility doesn't infringe on their time as much as an evangelistic lifestyle would. Others need to 'finish' the program to feel like they have paid their dues.

Some probably aren't as diabolically driven... they just don't feel a need until a program is put before them.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by Thad

thanks steadfast.

as i said, several in CA. have attended Rick W's conference and impimented his programs

Now this is Funny- We are struggling trying to enforce programs that others have now abandoned!

What happenned to old fashioned week long prayer meetings with fasting?

What happenned to door knocking for small churches?

Oh yeah, they involve work.