((((((((((((TULSA BOMBSHELL))))))))) "49 Elders" Explained!! See this LIST

[revrandy]

Originally Posted by Monkeyman

Coonman, I like ya...I'm even sure that given the chance we would enjoy a cup a joe and a racoon fajita together...but...Randy did spend some time in Nor Cal. And even though I am in the frozen north, I spent many years of my life in the same area...and trust me bro...there is some truth to what he speaks. I know firsthand junk...I would never spread it here. Does it make these men bad in my eyes, no, I can't see past all the junk in my own eye, yet, politics has happened, just accept that...cool? Cool!

Have a Merry Christmas bro, been praying for ya...

It doesn't make them bad in my eyes either...but unless Coonskinner spends some time there he wouldn't understand...

It's the land of Giants... it is completely different than the plains of Kansas...many folks want to identify with them but unless they have been there, done that...they just won't understand...

But as was stated....we're all just cuckoo...and inane....

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Randy's big "POTD" was in response to this:


Quote:


How many times do we have to prove that the UPC's relationship to a sovereign local church is nowhere close to analagous to the relationship between a saint and their pastor?

That is one of the most bogus, laughably misconstrued things I have read on here.

Does it strike anybody else as odd that the same folks who will argue and fuss and contend that pastors have no authority to tell anybody anything all of a sudden want to twist and warp the concept of pastoral authority by applying it to the organization, and then call the tulsa men rebellious for doing their own thing?

I guess you guys think if you keep saying it often enough, people will buy it...and some will.

But it has been refuted soundly, over and over again.

You are comparing apples and horse apples.

Coon, your statement seems to assume that the local church is the ultimate sovereign institution in God's eyes. I disagree.

I believe the family is the ultimate sovereign institution in God's design. The local church is made of families, the section is made up of local churches, the district is made up of local sections, and the national is made of of districts.

With this view, the analogy that you seem to strongly object to, is absolutely correct.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Pianoman

Coon, your statement seems to assume that the local church is the ultimate sovereign institution in God's eyes. I disagree.

I believe the family is the ultimate sovereign institution in God's design. The local church is made of families, the section is made up of local churches, the district is made up of local sections, and the national is made of of districts.

With this view, the analogy that you seem to strongly object to, is absolutely correct.

Pianoman, this is not up to your usual level of clarity...

What in the world do you mean?

This has nothing to do with the nuclear family unit.

We are talking about the fact that trying to compare the organization's relationship to pastors is not analogous to a pastor's relationship with saints.

We are discussig this Tulsa stuff, Pianoman, not whether the local church or the family is paramount.

The truth is that the family and the localchurch are supposed to work hand in glove, not in a hierarchial structure.

But that is a discussion that has nothing to do with Tulsa.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by revrandy

It doesn't make them bad in my eyes either...but unless Coonskinner spends some time there he wouldn't understand...

It's the land of Giants... it is completely different than the plains of Kansas...many folks want to identify with them but unless they have been there, done that...they just won't understand...

But as was stated....we're all just cuckoo...and inane....

No, your analogy was.

Deal with that, please, rather than avoiding the subject.

[revrandy]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Monk, I don't doubt what you say in the least. In fact, that is my point--there are no doubt issues on all sides of the equation out there.

That's why I think it is completely disingenuous for one fellow with one perspective to claim the high road, andlabel everybody else unethical, especially with bogus analogies like comparing the UPC's relationship with sovereign churches to a pastor's relationship with saints.

That's so far out in left field that I almost feel silly bothering to refute it.

I am not so naive as to think that every man on that list is 100% pure and pristine in their motives; we are dealing with humanity here.

But don't insult my intelligence by trying to label and broadbrush the whole kit and caboodle with inane anaolgies and cuckoo comparisons.

Western District politics and sibling rivalries are not a story of the black hats vs. the white hats. It's just a wee bit more complex than that, and even those of us out here in flyover country are smart enough to know that.

Coon.... I am just tired of it..it doesn't matter to me one iota what these guys do... I am just sitting in the nose bleed section...but that doesn't diminish my opinion of what's going on...you can comment on folks all you'd like...I never claimed any high road..I just called it like I see it... and made a few snide comments here or there...(which is my nature...sometimes funny...sometimes not ) ....

again my horse will probably never stand as high as yours.... but that's okay...
I can still ride....

[revrandy]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

No, your analogy was.

Deal with that, please, rather than avoiding the subject.

CS....Did you ever vote these men in to lead??

and were you voted in as Pastor of Salina or did you pioneer the work??

[revrandy]

btw..would love to chat..but I gotta pay the bills...I will look for response later...

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

You need to start a Dan fan club .... I'll authorize it ... it can be official. Contact PP, I'm sure he'd join. Just offer him a position on the General Council.

Daniel, I don't exactly get the inference here.

I think your charge of "obsession" is as warped as your hideous theological views.

You really, really worry me.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by revrandy

Coon.... I am just tired of it..it doesn't matter to me one iota what these guys do... I am just sitting in the nose bleed section...but that doesn't diminish my opinion of what's going on...you can comment on folks all you'd like...I never claimed any high road..I just called it like I see it... and made a few snide comments here or there...(which is my nature...sometimes funny...sometimes not ) ....

again my horse will probably never stand as high as yours.... but that's okay...
I can still ride....

Your horse? My horse?

Please address the issue that you used to label the Tulsa men unethical--the compariso of the org/pastors with pastors/saints.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by revrandy

CS....Did you ever vote these men in to lead??

and were you voted in as Pastor of Salina or did you pioneer the work??

Where are you going with this, and what in the world do you mean?