((((((((((((TULSA BOMBSHELL))))))))) "49 Elders" Explained!! See this LIST

[SDG]

Originally Posted by pelathais

It may be a technicality, but the UPCI manual's language does forbid proselytizing other UPC ministers to leave the org.

It does indeed ... especially if still holding credentials. This active recruiting is against the Affirmation Statement and the commitments made by UPCI ministers at licensure.

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

2007 Manual Page 159

Position Papers/Ministerial Code of Ethics

ends with...

"Having accepted a pastorate, I will not use my influence to alienate the church or any portion thereof from the fellowship or support of the United Pentecostal Church International. If my convictions change, I will be honorable enough to withdraw."

Questions:

Will ministers withdrawing abide by the code of ethics they ascribed to in the manual when they affirmed their membership with the fellowship?

Will they simply withdraw w/o using their influence to alienate their church which may be UPCI affiliated? Will they not use their influence to alienate the fellowship or support of the UPCI?

Have not their convictions changed in regards to abiding to the current bylaws of the UPCI ... and so the honorable thing is to withdraw without trying to bring others w/ them?

Will their integrity be questioned ???... do they not also fall under question ethically if they break this code of ethics? ... which can seemingly then be adjudicated under resolution 3?

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

First, a church can be informed but before the meeting ... a pastor has a window ... to exert influence as to alienate the church's decision ....

but that's not at the heart of the issue ....

To make this thread about the procedural issue of disaffiliation is to miss it entirely. We are speaking about the ethical commitment ministers and pastors made when they agreed to enter the fellowship.

They agreed not only to the AS and Fundamental doctrine ... but also to the teachings/positions of the fellowship, it's bylaws and guidelines.

Will those leaving or considering leaving act ethically as to the underlined portion below:

2007 Manual Page 159

Position Papers/Ministerial Code of Ethics

ends with...

"Having accepted a pastorate, I will not use my influence to alienate the church or any portion thereof from the fellowship or support of the United Pentecostal Church International. If my convictions change, I will be honorable enough to withdraw."

Were the calls by some ministers to protest/boycott organizational divisions with their offerings unethical as stated in the fellowship's teaching/position for ministerial ethics?

Are those unhappy w/ the "change of direction" of the org and promoting alienation/division violating their commitments made when they applied for their license by not simply and honorably withdrawing?

Yes, tv is a conviction dear to some ... but weren't their commitments not to adversely influence or contend towards the disunity of the faith also convictions?

Have some poisoned their congregations w/ anti-org rhetoric from the pulpit? Is there strong-arming by some being used to influence departure?


These are just some of the ethical commitments made by those applying for license with the fellowship:
[This is a current application for a local license]



Isn't part of the teaching of the church this position paper on ethical and honorable departure?

Are those considering a concerted departure avoiding the breaking of the unity of the Spirit in the assemblies?

Have they refrained from speaking evil, critical and contentious words about anyone in their fellowship? What have they done to work towards peace and harmony? And have they been cooperating w/ all efforts of the organization?

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Jekyll

Who's asking who to leave?

Buuwahhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!

Jekyll, let's have honest discussion.

These men are on this list by "OSMOSIS"????

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by pelathais

But what happpened to the "7 and 7x7" make up? Like I said earlier, with T. L. Craft's "demotion" we now have a "6 and 50" composition.

The chakras are all wrong!

These guys will justify their evil deeds by announcing to the world that they are "saving the true Apostolic faith". They will need us to believe they are so holy and righteous and every one else is backsliding; "we have to do this to save the next generation. While it may seem or appear unethical it really is righteous, God expects us to act and act NOW! The end justifies the means, because we have to stand for holiness. We can have revival and holiness at the same time."

"Desperate times demands desperate measures"

"Hurry act now and you'll get 50% off the first years registration and a free copy of TLC's new book "why I let Lanny Stay".

I can write the script and read it to you tonight in five minutes, that's how predictable this whole thing is. Insane and unrighteous.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by embonpoint

Without some circumstances other than this simple explanation I would hate to have to answer to God for taking that position Con, Lib or otherwise and that might be an interesting discussion for another thread. My only point was that we all bring certain biases to these discussions. The current "whipping boys" for some on this board are the Tulsa group. I just think that it is too bad that nothing honorable can be ascribed to any of thes men.

Btw it must be someone on the General Council as none of the men on the Executive council pastor in cities with a population of 1 million or more. There are only about 8 in the US.

Las Vegas grew to over 1 million in the metro area in 1998, becoming the 33rd metropolitan area in the US with over 1 million people.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Las Vegas grew to over 1 million in the metro area in 1998, becoming the 33rd metropolitan area in the US with over 1 million people.

Most of these in the Northeast and West Coast ... right?

Apparently the Northeast is now a missions field for the WPF since it is grossly under-represented in the holy of holies mothership.

The laborers are few ... the short sleeves are many.

[PastorD]

Originally Posted by ChicagoPastor

BTW, I thought Cris Craft didn't want anything to do with the Tulsa group??

all is being discussed on the other tulsa 49 elders thread

[SDG]

I'm still concerned about the racial makeup of this list .... are there no men of color ... African-Americans, Hispanics, etc. still keeping holiness????

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

I'm still concerned about the racial makeup of this list .... are there no men of color ... African-Americans, Hispanics, etc. still keeping holiness????

It's still a good ol'e white boys club. This club is the disgruntled white boys club from the other white boys club.

[embonpoint]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Las Vegas grew to over 1 million in the metro area in 1998, becoming the 33rd metropolitan area in the US with over 1 million people.

Back to technicalities but there is a difference in a city and a metro area. It would seem very difficult, based on the manual, to prohibit a minister from going to say Henderson because there is a church in Las Vegas.

Again just for the record I would not want to answer for keeping a man out of a city for which he had a burden. And this is not a Con vs Lib issue.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Jekyll

Who's asking who to leave?

Again, it's a technicality... but consider:

UPC men are being prosyletized to participate in the Tulsa Summit. Presently, it appears to have a mechanism in place where a UPCI preacher would not have to leave the UPC but could still be a part of the "fellowship."

However a full blown organization is in the works with it's own Bible Quizzing program, youth ministries, Foreign and Home missions...

... and notice that they've chosen the nomenclature that I would have chosen - instead of calling brethren outside of North America "foreign", they're in "World Missions" territory.

Anyway, whenever they approach a UPC'er to "fellowship," they are quite obviously intent upon growing their own org. That's prosyletizing.