UPCI's Randy Hollis Throws Down the Gauntlet: The Emancipation of Isaac

[RevBuddy]

So let me understand this...if a sin is not listed as a sin in the Bible...

then the potential sin could maybe not be a potental sin potentially, but if a sin is listed in the Bible it is no longer a potential sin, but has been established as a genuine, 100 per cent, no questions asked...sin?

I just wanted to clarify 4 pages of postings into a simple summary!

[SDG]

Originally Posted by RevBuddy

So let me understand this...if a sin is not listed as a sin in the Bible...

then the potential sin could maybe not be a potental sin potentially, but if a sin is listed in the Bible it is no longer a potential sin, but has been established as a genuine, 100 per cent, no questions asked...sin?

I just wanted to clarify 4 pages of postings into a simple summary!

That's it in a nutshell, Elder ... We've settled the age old questions.

that and flossing may be what splits hell right open for the believer in purgotory status

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by RevBuddy

So let me understand this...if a sin is not listed as a sin in the Bible...

then the potential sin could maybe not be a potental sin potentially, but if a sin is listed in the Bible it is no longer a potential sin, but has been established as a genuine, 100 per cent, no questions asked...sin?

I just wanted to clarify 4 pages of postings into a simple summary!

I think it's more along the lines of if the bible isn't clear then we cannot say something is or is not a sin and is left between the individual and God.

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I read this post and thought "surely Dan can't argue with this". Then I looked at the next post and found I was wrong!

DAN, what's to argue with? He's preaching Holy Ghost conviction and not a standard man made standard of modesty.

Hate to burst your bubble, but the Holy Spirit does not selectively convict standards as it chooses. Jesus said when the comforter comes, he will testify of me. God is not a respecter of persons. Oh the Lord told me is hogwash. The word of God is our guide and the Holy Spirit testifies to the word.

I have seen people go into the prayer room, come out crying, speaking in tongues come out and say God told them to do something totally contrary to God's word. People can pray themselves into peace with the devil and never know it. The word of God is our guide.

I'm not saying God does not speak, He just speaks in agreement with His word.

Now, you're saying our conscience should be our guide. Nope, our conscience can fail us, and should not be trusted either. Too much confusion associated with upbringing, education, pier pressure, etc. The suicide bomber feels chills too every time they strap on a bomb. They pray too and their conscience tells them to pull the string.

God's word is the lamp to our feet and the light to our path. Any voice that speaks otherwise is not the Holy Spirit. You can personally feel guilty about certain activities, but don't say the Lord told you.

Anything that is not of faith is sin. Any faith that is not in Christ is sin. Trusting in our own conscience will deceive us.

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I think it's more along the lines of if the bible isn't clear then we cannot say something is or is not a sin and is left between the individual and God.

There is not such thing. God is not a respecter of persons. Sin is sin. What is sin is listed in the bible. Sin that will ........ your soul. "They that do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." God does not allow behavior for one and not for the other. It's across the board.

I know a lady who has been in UPC all her life. Her sister cut her hair and she said 'why did God let her do it and not me." Well, God had nothing to do with it. The ladies husband would not let her and preached against it all his ministry. So, God isn't stopping her, its her husband.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by staysharp

Hate to burst your bubble, but the Holy Spirit does not selectively convict standards as it chooses. Jesus said when the comforter comes, he will testify of me. God is not a respecter of persons. Oh the Lord told me is hogwash. The word of God is our guide and the Holy Spirit testifies to the word.

I have seen people go into the prayer room, come out crying, speaking in tongues come out and say God told them to do something totally contrary to God's word. People can pray themselves into peace with the devil and never know it. The word of God is our guide.

I'm not saying God does not speak, He just speaks in agreement with His word.

Now, you're saying our conscience should be our guide. Nope, our conscience can fail us, and should not be trusted either. Too much confusion associated with upbringing, education, pier pressure, etc. The suicide bomber feels chills too every time they strap on a bomb. They pray too and their conscience tells them to pull the string.

God's word is the lamp to our feet and the light to our path. Any voice that speaks otherwise is not the Holy Spirit. You can personally feel guilty about certain activities, but don't say the Lord told you.

Anything that is not of faith is sin. Any faith that is not in Christ is sin. Trusting in our own conscience will deceive us.

C'mon now preacher.... *** shockamooing****

[RevBuddy]

''...if the Bible isn't clear...''

That's the deception right there! His Word is forever settled and as to godly principles and truths, it is simple, direct and to the point! There's no shadow of turning with Him.

It's those who misappropriate His Word and misinterpret that Word who have brought the confusion and bias to His Church.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by staysharp

There is not such thing. God is not a respecter of persons. Sin is sin. What is sin is listed in the bible. Sin that will ........ your soul. "They that do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." God does not allow behavior for one and not for the other. It's across the board.

I know a lady who has been in UPC all her life. Her sister cut her hair and she said 'why did God let her do it and not me." Well, God had nothing to do with it. The ladies husband would not let her and preached against it all his ministry. So, God isn't stopping her, its her husband.

I agree with you that sin is sin. There are some things that although not sin can become sin for some people.

A rich young ruler once came to Jesus, anxious to know what was wrong with his religious experience. He was so anxious that he literally came RUNNING, and FELL DOWN at the master's feet. When he inquired, 'What must I do --?" Jesus replied, "one thing thou lackest --." Christ then put his finger upon the young man's pet sin, and instructed him how to get rid of it. (See Mk. 10:21.)

http://www.spiritoffire.org/ebooks/aa%20allen/mwp13.htm

Another excerpt from A A Allen:

Consecration has much to do with personal things. It is the putting off, out of our lives, the hundred and one little things that in themselves may not be sin, but which if they are allowed to remain, take the place that Christ should take. As an example, many professing Christians admit that they do not read their Bible as much as they should. They declare that they are so busy, they just don't have time to read it. Yet these same people have time to read all the daily and Sunday comic strips, many magazines and stories. There is but one conclusion. These comics, magazines, and stories are more important to them than the word of God. They have crowded out Christ from his rightful place in these people's lives. Some of this reading might be of such a nature as to be actually sinful in itself, but much of it is rather harmless, except for the fact that it HAS CROWDED OUT CHRIST. Thousands of those who profess to be believers in the Lord Jesus Christ today would have more power in their lives if the time they spend in listening to the ball games and "soap operas", and "perpetual emotion dramas" were spent listening to the voice of God, alone in the closet of prayer. These are some of the "little foxes tht spoil the vines", destroying the tender grapes and robbing God's people of fruitfulness.

I consider the 'holiness standards' of the UPC manmade rules. But having said that it is possible for a woman to be personally convicted by the Holy Spirit that wearing jewelry is wrong. For instance, if I adorned myself with excessive jewelry or took pride in my jewelry, a pride which comes with a feeling of superiority, then it would be sin and God would convict me of the pride that came with wearing jewelry. After repentance, I would either get rid of my jewelry since it was a hinderance in my walk with God or I would be able to push away thoughts of pride and still wear jewelry but not to the same excess. It's not all black and white as you would like it to be. But the important thing to remember is not to impose my convictions on others. (And if you're curious, no, the above did not happen to me. I've have never been one to wear jewelry even before I became a Christian. This is only an example.)

How is one convicted if not by their conscience? Or why did God give us a conscience if not to be able to tell right from wrong. Rom 2:15

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by RevBuddy

''...if the Bible isn't clear...''

That's the deception right there! His Word is forever settled and as to godly principles and truths, it is simple, direct and to the point! There's no shadow of turning with Him.

It's those who misappropriate His Word and misinterpret that Word who have brought the confusion and bias to His Church.

I agree with you. But if the Bible isn't clear then I think PJ is correct there shouldn't be rules based on what isn't clear. Let God direct according to each individual. Paul felt free to eat anything that God created for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer 1Tim 4:5 but others only vegetables. Romans 4:2 There are grey areas. Paul never said the one who did not believe as he did was wrong. But I think if someone preached eating meat is a sin as opposed to a personal conviction then that would be wrong.

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

There are some things that although not sin can become sin for some people.

http://www.spiritoffire.org/ebooks/aa%20allen/mwp13.htm

Another excerpt from A A Allen:

I consider the 'holiness standards' of the UPC manmade rules. But having said that it is possible for a woman to be personally convicted by the Holy Spirit that wearing jewelry is wrong. For instance, if I adorned myself with excessive jewelry or took pride in my jewelry, a pride which comes with a feeling of superiority, then it would be sin and God would convict me of the pride that came with wearing jewelry. After repentance, I would either get rid of my jewelry since it was a hinderance in my walk with God or I would be able to push away thoughts of pride and still wear jewelry but not to the same excess. It's not all black and white as you would like it to be. But the important thing to remember is not to impose my convictions on others. (And if you're curious, no, the above did not happen to me. I've have never been one to wear jewelry even before I became a Christian. This is only an example.)

How is one convicted if not by their conscience? Or why did God give us a conscience if not to be able to tell right from wrong. Rom 2:15

Now that's funny...using AA Allen to refute me!

You are welcome to hold whatever standard you wish, ie coffee, long sleeves, tea, tv, etc. etc. that's not my point. Just don't go around telling people God told you to do so.

If you struggle in your flesh with a particular temptation, ie (alcohol), granted it would be best for YOU to walk a mile away from a liquor store. But that's not God, that's your own flesh. We are drawn into temptation out of the lust of our own flesh. That which is inside of us.

But God won't strike you dead, or un-save your soul because you did; you would just struggle needlessly. Anyway, God bless gotta go preach the good news of Jesus!