Accepting Him or Rejecting Him; Jesus Name Baptism and Pentecostal Trinity Churches

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Theophilus

This works great...if you chuck the rest of scripture. Who's looking?

Of course there's the rest of scripture. Just saying that this is the way many trinitarians look at it --- not that they're right. It's so clear how the apostles baptized.

Tradition is very very powerful thing and going against the status quo is difficult when you're in the "system".

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by whollyHis

St. Matt...I was lying in bed last night, thinking about this forum, and all of the conversations about the doctrine that have been presented,and I asked myself the question, "Why NOT be baptized in Jesus Name??" Folks will do everything else in His name- why wouldn't they want to be baptized in His name? I cannot fathom NOT desiring to have His name applied to my life. Is it because that's all I've ever known, or been taught?

Do other churches preach or teach the name of Jesus at all?? I have only been to a Church of God service one time, Apostolic church is all I know...

Other churches do preach and teach the name of Jesus, they just believe they take on His name when they confess in faith Him as Saviour. They pray to the Father in Jesus Name as scripture instructs, they just don't interpret scripture as OP's do. Many of them believe what they believe just as fervently as OP's believe what they believe, however most will not reject you as a brother or sister in Christ just because they disagree doctrinely. Why not accept them as brothers and sisters, then trust the Holy Spirit to complete anything that is lacking in them?

[Neck]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Have you read the AG's articles of faith. When Charisma ran that article that caused such a furor a couple of years back it was the AG huncho that said they would NOT fellowship Oneness folks unitl they denied this heresy. He had more guts than the two Oneness guys interveiwed.

I do remember those statements. But remember that they had their officals we had ours. The ministers in an organization do not always subscribe to the manual.

[Neck]

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

I can tell you first hand that Zion DID NOT welcome the UPC message with open arms at all. Three Districts used to rent the Zion campus for campmeetings. They were concurrent for Central New England (then MA-RI), Connecticut, and New York Metro being there in what must be maybe 96-2000.

I agree with that statment. I was only sharing that there were some men that were baptized in secret. There were teachers there that believed the message.

My Dad and Mom found the oneness revleation after leaving Zion.

Just wanted to share that there were some who believed.

SHe has run into many students from the 50's who turned Oneness in UPCI and other Oneness org's as church members.

Nathan Eckstadt

Originally Posted by Felicity

Of course there's the rest of scripture. Just saying that this is the way many trinitarians look at it --- not that they're right. It's so clear how the apostles baptized.

Tradition is very very powerful thing and going against the status quo is difficult when you're in the "system".

If you take a closer look at the heretical post, then you'll see why the comment was made. Chan superciliously defends his many modified tritheistic heresies with a familiar craftiness and subtle deception. Notice the supposed clever nuance of referring to trinitarians in the third person, though he is one. See Chan's homepage

I believe that it was that deception that threw you off.

It reminds me of some of the dialogue that I read from that book I shared with you the other evening. BTW, PM me if you are really interested in one.

[Brother Price]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Other churches do preach and teach the name of Jesus, they just believe they take on His name when they confess in faith Him as Saviour. They pray to the Father in Jesus Name as scripture instructs, they just don't interpret scripture as OP's do. Many of them believe what they believe just as fervently as OP's believe what they believe, however most will not reject you as a brother or sister in Christ just because they disagree doctrinely. Why not accept them as brothers and sisters, then trust the Holy Spirit to complete anything that is lacking in them?

Because their Jesus is not my Jesus. They deny Jesus is the Father. They deny Jesus is the Holy Ghost. In so doing, they have made another Jesus than that of the Bible. In order to be a brother, they must have the same Father, and they do not have my Father. They may say I am their brother, but I do not call them mine, because of the scriptures, as found in 2John 1:10-11, "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him Godspeed: For he that biddeth him Godspeed is partaker of his evil deeds."

They can be fervant in their beliefs, and still be fervantly wrong. Trinitarians are not my brothers or sisters. They have a different God. One other thing to mention on this. John 8:24 says this, "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." Notice ion the King James that the word 'he' is in italics. It was added for clarity. But, the original says that unless one believes Jesus is the I AM, which means unless a soul believes Jesus Christ is God and God alone, then cannot be saved. Only God can forgive sins, and only God can save the soul.

[sola gratia]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

Because their Jesus is not my Jesus. They deny Jesus is the Father. They deny Jesus is the Holy Ghost. In so doing, they have made another Jesus than that of the Bible. In order to be a brother, they must have the same Father, and they do not have my Father. They may say I am their brother, but I do not call them mine, because of the scriptures, as found in 2John 1:10-11, "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him Godspeed: For he that biddeth him Godspeed is partaker of his evil deeds."

They can be fervant in their beliefs, and still be fervantly wrong. Trinitarians are not my brothers or sisters. They have a different God. One other thing to mention on this. John 8:24 says this, "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." Notice ion the King James that the word 'he' is in italics. It was added for clarity. But, the original says that unless one believes Jesus is the I AM, which means unless a soul believes Jesus Christ is God and God alone, then cannot be saved. Only God can forgive sins, and only God can save the soul.

Gee can I quote you on this?

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

Because their Jesus is not my Jesus. They deny Jesus is the Father. They deny Jesus is the Holy Ghost. In so doing, they have made another Jesus than that of the Bible. In order to be a brother, they must have the same Father, and they do not have my Father. They may say I am their brother, but I do not call them mine, because of the scriptures, as found in 2John 1:10-11, "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him Godspeed: For he that biddeth him Godspeed is partaker of his evil deeds."
They can be fervant in their beliefs, and still be fervantly wrong. Trinitarians are not my brothers or sisters. They have a different God. One other thing to mention on this. John 8:24 says this, "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." Notice ion the King James that the word 'he' is in italics. It was added for clarity. But, the original says that unless one believes Jesus is the I AM, which means unless a soul believes Jesus Christ is God and God alone, then cannot be saved. Only God can forgive sins, and only God can save the soul.

What doctrine is John speaking of? He is specifically speaking of the doctrine that Jesus The Christ has come in the flesh, the doctrine that the messiah has come. You are super-imposing your interruption into the context. Trinitarians do believe that Jesus is He that has come in the flesh. I am not trinitarian, but I will defend folks that I know are true believers in Jesus Christ.

[sola gratia]

Brother Price cannot defend his own position so I would not be to concerned about it - it is sad to think that some think in this manner

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Theophilus

If you take a closer look at the heretical post, then you'll see why the comment was made. Chan superciliously defends his many modified tritheistic heresies with a familiar craftiness and subtle deception. Notice the supposed clever nuance of referring to trinitarians in the third person, though he is one. See Chan's homepage

I believe that it was that deception that threw you off.

It reminds me of some of the dialogue that I read from that book I shared with you the other evening. BTW, PM me if you are really interested in one.

I thought of the same conversation when I read that but I don't really think I was thrown off. He may or may not be trinitarian but I've spoken with trinitarians (so-called) who use some of the same arguments.

I am and I will.