Facts That Shame The Church

Thank you for your burden AND your postings! As much as my flesh would like to deflect the weight of conviction your posts bring, my spirit is broken. I spent a brief season doing missions work in Guatemala and El Salvador when I was an 18 year old kid (30 years ago) and I have always had a heart for missions... but since that time, to my shame, I have never been able to get my heart and my head together.

I covet your prayers as I seek after the mind of God specifically for my life!

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

The Lord is... not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” (II Pet. 3:9)

Sis. A, I preached a message a year or two ago titled "Who is ANY?". I made any a noun and then began to identify ANY. It is amazing to realize that any means any... that is the neighbor you walk by every day; the drug addict you read about in the papers; the mother who lost a child; the abusive husband; the doctor or lawyer; ANY means ANY yet we only want those who fit our mold! This is indeed a SHAME!

[Sister Alvear]

Originally Posted by philjones

Thank you for your burden AND your postings! As much as my flesh would like to deflect the weight of conviction your posts bring, my spirit is broken. I spent a brief season doing missions work in Guatemala and El Salvador when I was an 18 year old kid (30 years ago) and I have always had a heart for missions... but since that time, to my shame, I have never been able to get my heart and my head together.

I covet your prayers as I seek after the mind of God specifically for my life!

You will be in my prayers and I will share this with Brother Alvear. Blessings to you.

[bishoph]

As one who has had the privilege to minister overseas on many occasions, my heart is broken once more as I read your post. I do not know all of the statistics that are relevant, however I know for instance that in India alone there are over 500,000,000 who have never heard the name of Jesus once. With that knowledge I find it very reasonable to estimate the numbers of those who haven't heard the good news at nearly 3 billion.

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

So, I don´t know how up to date the figures are but I do know there are millions that sit in pagan darkness and Larry Boy I ask you, my friend, whose sin is this?

I wasn't trying to attack what you posted, I was just a geek and you said you weren't sure how up to date they are, so I looked into it... Like I said in that post, I didn't mean any offense by it... I really didn't... I'm just a nerd and I couldn't help myself...

and I don't know who's fault it is... I don't think its anyone, really... There's nothing we can do... We, ourselves, in our humanity can't do a thing to get the gospel where it isn't...

God has a plan, He knows what he's doing... We just have to trust that, even though we don't understand why so many haven't even heard his name, that He does know what He's doing...

Originally Posted by philjones

RC,

Your postings are reprehensible. Your tone is always looking to tear down and destroy... you are antagonistic and TOTALLY missed the entire point of the article.

And I am a MAN and I despise your posting style and much of the content you put out there.

please, go back and read the last paragaraph of it... none of it was meant to tear down what she posted... she just said something about not being sure how up to date the stats were, so I looked some of them up (because they didn't sound up to date)... That's it...

it wasn't meant to tear down, more to update...

Originally Posted by bishoph

As one who has had the privilege to minister overseas on many occasions, my heart is broken once more as I read your post. I do not know all of the statistics that are relevant, however I know for instance that in India alone there are over 500,000,000 who have never heard the name of Jesus once. With that knowledge I find it very reasonable to estimate the numbers of those who haven't heard the good news at nearly 3 billion.

how exactly do you know this?? Was there a poll "Have you ever heard the name "Jesus" before?" or something???

I mean, India has one of the oldest "churches" in the world (one of the original 12, supposedly, started a Christian group in India that STILL EXISTS TODAY (supposedly))...

[bishoph]

Because I have been there and spoken with many of the christian leaders who have given me these numbers. Remember India is 93+% Hindu so, though Christianity is the fastest growing segment of the population it is still relatively small.

Originally Posted by bishoph

Because I have been there and spoken with many of the christian leaders who have given me these numbers. Remember India is 93+% Hindu so, though Christianity is the fastest growing segment of the population it is still relatively small.

my point is that it is a nonsense stat that is 100% unverifiable...

The fact that there are Christian groups in India that are 2000 years old and that Christianity is the largest growing segment of the population would mean that, likely, more than 50% of the population have heard of Christ. PLUS the fact is that anyone with more than a high school education, you'd think, would have heard of Christianity since it is impossible to talk about World History without acknowledging the existence of Christianity...

[Sister Alvear]

like the figures say about Brazil that the Pentecostal church is the fastest growing church in Brazil...those that gather those figures have no earthly ideal what a real Pentecostal is.
For example one of the churches that is counted in that nunber, blesses water, gives our holy roses, blesses salt, tricks the poor into giving their all by promising them wealth...
Very few people even in Brazil really know who Jesus is.

Larry Boy I am not offended in any way. I do think you must be confused about something and If in any way I can help I will. Sometimes life leaves it marks on us and it is easy to say harsh things we really don´t mean.

Even in the work I do for the kingdom if I am not careful I find myself thinking certain things are not fair...we are all just humans. I too find things unfair when my phone rings a dozen times a day from sincere people in deep poverty asking for money to buy some food...asking for help on a church...asking for any old banged up car to help spread the gospel..asking for Bibles to take into new villages...and I have to say a lot of the times to these people I cannot help...By the tone in their voice I know they are hurt for their needs are not made up desires...they are actual needs and I look at all the money people spend in America on junk...it would be easy to become bitter...BUT...I am not the judge of the earth or the judge of my American brother...
There are things in life that happen that we makes us draw away from our brothers and sisters...My own 2 flesh and blood sisters will have nothing to do with the type churches I visit because both were hurt and that hurt became hate and revolt and bitterness...Yes, thank the Lord at least they do go to church but not to Pentecostal churches. It hurts me very deeply that they feel Pentecostal churches are cults and sadly some really are...BUT even so we cannot attack others and everything just because we are really hurting. (that is our nature) but the Holy Ghost must rule our lives and guide us.
I have never claimed to be a woman preacher only a missionary but I hurt when people say hard things against women. I know some women that are loud mouthed and OUT of their place but along my journey I have meet many sweet simple godly handmaidens of the Lord. So I have to be very careful for that is a "raw" spot in my heart...not that it hurts me personally but something in me goes into the "attack" gear when things are said about women because I think of all my life I watched Mother Holmes work in the vineyard along with women of the past such as Sister Mary Williams, Sister Rita Dawson and others.

Larry, the last time we were staying with one preacher and going across town to preach for another one..the call came we had to spend the night at the other preachers house or he would be offended...Here I had just had surgery and not even supposed to make the trip let along carry heavy suitcases...but we did just that went over like little puppy dogs at the preachers command spent the night and next day went back to the other preachers home...If you really want to know my opinion there is an eternal baby hood in Pentecost! No wonder the world sits in darkness. We live in a self centered world. I was doing a ladies meeting at one church out west and called the pastor of the other church across town..He said Sister Alvear if you are there you cannot come here! But later he called and met me at the mall and even gave me an offering...Such a shame people become bitter enemies. I asked what was wrong between the two churches the pastor´s wife told me it was a family freud that took place before she and her husband were ever born!

How childish...

I have been hurt many times over the years by missionaries that had much more money than we will ever have...One time one of them came into the city where we lived and boasted, We will show the Alvears how to do mission work..." They came in with new vans, PA systems renting buildings and this and that...Our people can and told us what they were saying...we said, let them win all they can for we do not have money for the things they do...and left it at that...it soom blew over...

So my friend let´s keep focused on the REAL THING and that is: the world needs Jesus.

There is only one church group that I speak against and it is because I feel they are a dangerous cult...the rest I don´t pay much attention to for while they fight we work!