The Future of the Oneness Pentecostal Movement

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Ronzo

I have my own thoughts about it, but I won't share them...

Aw, c'mon, make yourself a target.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Wow! $1000 per year does seem high!

We paid annual fees to St. Louis and then 50% of the pastor's tithe to the district. At least many did - those who were "cooperators" did. (talking about pastors paying 50% of their tithe to the district)

I personally think there are so many benefits. What are these young men looking for anyhow?

Add that to the tithes the aspiring minister is "forced" to pay to the local church or else he loses the privilege ... it can be straining ... it's not like he's a Levite or anything.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Not just the cream rises to the top but the cream that God ordains to rise to the top does. Who determines what the "top" is? Who determines what defines "cream"?

I believe firmly that God (being God and all ) has a lot to do with who does and doesn't "rise".

Amen!

Only God knows what the top is and what the cream is and he defines it differently than we do. Note these two churches in the book of Revelations: Smyrna and Laodicea One is poor and the other rich. In the natural the most would say the rich church is the blessed church.

[Elihu]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Wow! $1000 per year does seem high!

We paid annual fees to St. Louis and then 50% of the pastor's tithe to the district. At least many did - those who were "cooperators" did. (talking about pastors paying 50% of their tithe to the district)

I personally think there are so many benefits. What are these young men looking for anyhow?

They have no real voice in the movement. A local licensed minister pays dues but is not allowed to vote unless he meets a list of requirements that include, but are not limited to, full time status in ministry.

[Felicity]

TB pays $900+ budget fees per annum currently. The way it's set up is based on ministerial income - those in the higher salary bracket pay more.

You don't have to pay tithes to the organization on secular income.

[RandyWayne]

I can't identify at all in no way shape or form the kind of thinking that's presented sometimes on these forums. The idea that a man would want to become a pastor for fringe benefits is just simply "foreign" to me. Not part of my thought processes at all.

I'm not denying it might not happen. It's just that I don't know anybody in all my years (33+) of ministry who has gone into ministry for that reason.

All the pastors I've known are in ministry because they felt "called" and because they had a passion and burden to see souls saved and to minister to those who are already in the Church.

I guess my experience is very limited in regard to all the nepotism and control issues, etc. that are brought forward on these forums so often. And I feel blessed that this is the case.

When we were in our local UPC church during the 80's it was just assumed that any young men would go to Bible college to become a pastor or missionary. (Same for women... to become pastors wives ya understand.)
After all, the way ministers were lifted up, what young man wouldn't find the highest calling to be one?

And by benefits, I am not speaking of health insurance and such, rather the idea of being held in high regard -the boss, the big cheese, the "anointed one". It is a powerful draw to many!

I am just thinking that since this mindset is changing more and more, suddenly fewer men are getting "the calling".

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Felicity

TB pays $900+ budget fees per annum currently. The way it's set up is based on ministerial income - those in the higher salary bracket pay more.

You don't have to pay tithes to the organization on secular income.

Makes sense ....

[SDG]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

When we were in our local UPC church during the 80's it was just assumed that any young men would go to Bible college to become a pastor or missionary. (Same for women... to become pastors wives ya understand.)
After all, the way ministers were lifted up, what young man wouldn't find the highest calling to be one?

And by benefits, I am not speaking of health insurance and such, rather the idea of being held in high regard -the boss, the big cheese, the "anointed one". It is a powerful draw to many!

I am just thinking that since this mindset is changing more and more, suddenly fewer men are getting "the calling".

That's because those that did go and graduated ... HIT A BRICK WALL when they got out ... it also explains the downward trend in Bible School attendance.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Not just the cream rises to the top but the cream that God ordains to rise to the top does. Who determines what the "top" is? Who determines what defines "cream"?

I believe firmly that God (being God and all ) has a lot to do with who does and doesn't "rise".

Felicity, you have such a beautiful spirit (and a beautiful smile!). How do you manage to profess such optimism?

I don't agree with the way you're looking at the subject, even though I must confess that your way seems to produce much more happiness for you than what I've managed to glean.

I love the UPC leaders and have personally known most of them. They are great men. But there is a churning miasma that they had to "rise" through. It's this "miasma" of politics, fear-based control systems and brutal backbiting that I see.

Of course there are places free from such things; but just sit through a couple of closed minister's meetings at the district level and I'm afraid pessimism will inevitably follow.

Then, look up some gifted old friends. People you knew when you were young that had "success in the kingdom" written all over them. Hear their stories. Ask them why they don't funnel their young men into the organization.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by shamgar1

They have no real voice in the movement. A local licensed minister pays dues but is not allowed to vote unless he meets a list of requirements that include, but are not limited to, full time status in ministry.

Well, it makes sense to me that a local licensed individual wouldn't have a huge voice in any organization.

In our district you were able to apply for and receive a general license upon graduation from Bible College.

I think the men in our district for the most part felt that they were important and if they wanted to be heard only had to speak up for that to happen.