Why Sunday

[Steven Avery]

Originally Posted by mfblume

By the way, the vanishing away did not happen for any of it in AD70. It happened in Jeremiah's day as soon as Jeremiah wrote the words NEW COVENANT back in his day. It's from the perspective of his day, not the day Henbrews 8 was written.

Nonsense.

Paul is speaking directly in the current time:

“Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.”

Th claim this is a back-writing is a scholastic and English language absurdity, scholastic-gymnastic backflips.

Paul was precise with his words (e.g. “Now”) and tenses.

[Steven Avery]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The New Testament affirms the RIGHTEOUSNESS of the commandments.

Righteous to keep, or righteous to abrogate and violate?

[Steven Avery]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Show me where and how my words are a strawman argument.

You had a whole paragraph where you pretended to state my beliefs, without a single quote. Esaias highlighted one example. And I have limited time for debating trick nonsense.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Ok, it looks like we are moving towards a hair pulling contest. Which makes for a thread to resemble a James LeDeay discussion on the Hebrew copy of the Revelation. So, I’ll ask the question for both sides. Why Sunday?

[Amanah]

Another perspective from GJ:

Sabbath didn't start with Moses and it doesn't end with Moses. On the 7th day, God ended His work, before the law, before Moses, before Abraham, before man was created.

Gino Jennings on the Sabbath:

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Ok, it looks like we are moving towards a hair pulling contest. Which makes for a thread to resemble a James LeDeay discussion on the Hebrew copy of the Revelation. So, I’ll ask the question for both sides. Why Sunday?

For the modern, because it is easy to go along with what everybody else does, and it avoids rocking the boat and getting funny looks (or worse) from friends and relations.

Originally, because all pagan religions (including pagan forms of "Christianity" like trinitarianism etc) worship the Sun god, Baal, and Sunday was dedicated to the Sun, so there ya go.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Esaias

For the modern, because it is easy to go along with what everybody else does, and it avoids rocking the boat and getting funny looks (or worse) from friends and relations.

Originally, because all pagan religions (including pagan forms of "Christianity" like trinitarianism etc) worship the Sun god, Baal, and Sunday was dedicated to the Sun, so there ya go.

Originally, because all pagan religions (including pagan forms of "Christianity" like trinitarianism etc) worship the Sun god, Baal, and Sunday was dedicated to the Sun, so there ya go.



I believe that as well. To even consider having Church regularly on Saturday would be breaking serious traditions. And may even get you kick out of a fellowship. I’m sure there are none of us that likes to rock the boat of tradition.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

For the modern, because it is easy to go along with what everybody else does, and it avoids rocking the boat and getting funny looks (or worse) from friends and relations.

Originally, because all pagan religions (including pagan forms of "Christianity" like trinitarianism etc) worship the Sun god, Baal, and Sunday was dedicated to the Sun, so there ya go.

The same went for Friday, Saturday, Monday, and Woden's Day. Saturday was big with the Romans because the Imperial Temple was the temple of the Titan Saturn. So, I believe the pagan route for an argument just brings pagan accusations towards other days. Including Saturday. The church made collections on the first day of the week. Jesus remains in the tomb on Saturday, and rises on Sunday. In Genesis all six days have beginning and endings except the sabbath due to it being eternal. JMO. But traditions were held by both groups, Rabbinicals and by Christians. The Bible can only be the source in which we find the exact day when they would gather to worship. Another thing is the everyday get together house to house cookout, but then a communal living conditions would come in play. Which I highly doubt that was the case, or expected to be the case for all Christians throughout the ages.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

The same went for Friday, Saturday, Monday, and Woden's Day. Saturday was big with the Romans because the Imperial Temple was the temple of the Titan Saturn. So, I believe the pagan route for an argument just brings pagan accusations towards other days. Including Saturday.

Well, the history is pretty much clear that as Christendom became paganised the Day of the Sun became prominent. There is no historical connection between Saturn worship and the 7th day Sabbath, but there IS verifiable historical connection between Sunday keeping and sun worship.

The church made collections on the first day of the week.

Paul told the Corinthians "every man set aside by himself the first of the week" for a one time collection of alms for the poor brethren in Judea. I don't see that it follows that Christians regularly had church on Sunday, though.

Jesus remains in the tomb on Saturday, and rises on Sunday. In Genesis all six days have beginning and endings except the sabbath due to it being eternal. JMO. But traditions were held by both groups, Rabbinicals and by Christians. The Bible can only be the source in which we find the exact day when they would gather to worship.

Agreed. Interestingly, the 4th commandment says nothing about gathering or doing any particular things other than ceasing from your own labours and resting. However, a bit after that, God outlined several "appointments" (moedim), most of which were a "feast" or festival (chag) in Lev 23. The first appointment mentioned is the weekly Sabbath. It is also called a "holy convocation" or "sacred assembly".

Now, the church has always assembled together on a regular basis. But where did that idea originate? Jesus and the apostles didn't invent the church meeting out of whole cloth. There is precedent for it: the ekklesia is by definition an assembly, or group of people who meet together; the early church was either Judean (used to assembling on Sabbath in either synagogues or any designated "place where prayer was wont to be made") or God-fearing gentile (used to meeting with Judeans on the Sabbath at synagogues for prayer and instruction in the Word); all people have universally recognised the usefulness if not the apparent necessity of regular scheduled meetings, not just for religious purposes but as a basic function of being social creatures; and the pattern of temple service (the church itself is the temple which implies latreia or liturgy or divine service of offerings and worship of some kind), and so forth.

That Christians are to assemble is pretty evident. When, then? The Sabbath seems particularly and specially designed as a suitable time for assembling together. If you asked a first century Christian "How often should we meet together and when?" I think it would be practically self-evident that the Sabbath would immediately suggest itself as the most obvious candidate.

Technically, any day would do. However, if Sunday is THE standard day a local assembly gathers, it raises the question, "Why?" Suppose we simply called Oneness by the term "trinity", as in three aspects or modes or manifestations or titles or whatever. Would that not be suspect? Why associate with and try to appropriate that which is historically settled as "orthodox trinitarianism"? I see it the same way with Sunday keeping:. Is it any different than claiming Christmas trees are emblems of the cross? Why bother with the baggage? And trying to do both as church days seems to me a species of "I baptise you in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, in Jesus' name."

Another thing is the everyday get together house to house cookout, but then a communal living conditions would come in play. Which I highly doubt that was the case, or expected to be the case for all Christians throughout the ages.

I don't think the breaking bread daily house to house was "everybody having church every day" but is simply saying every day there were believers hanging out together and sharing meals, to emphasise the community they shared. The Judeans also had a history of communal groups (Qumran, etc) so that seems more of a local cultural practice in Jerusalem (not that a principle of community shouldn't be derived from their example, though).

[Esaias]

I'm still researching the pre-Roman and pre-Mithra origins of sunday keeping. I believe a key is found in the history of Israel, when Jereboam "made Israel to sin". He invented an alternative to the Feast of Tabernacles, which was in the 7th month. His alternative was in the 8th month. Why the 8th? Why not the 6th? Or whatever?

Jereboam made golden calves. The gold calf, cow, and bull were ancient middle eastern symbols of Baal. In fact the English word "bull" is itself connected to the word baal. Jereboam was (re)introducing the old Baal worship.

Now Baal was many things, one of which was the god of fertility and procreation, life and "new life". He was anciently identified not only with Kronos/Saturn, but the Sun as well. Interesting aside, Saturn USED to be the ancient sun god. Anyway, the sun god was often identified as the god of summer, who died every winter and was reborn in spring. Also, the sun god was generally believed to have been born on or near the winter solstice (late December). This is why Dec 25th was chosen by the catholics as the birthday of their sun god they erroneously call "Jesus", formerly known as Mithra the Persian sun god so popular among Romans.

The sun god was often part of a trinity, originally the Father, Wife/Mother, and Son. All this comes from Nimrod, Semiramis his wife, and Tammuz their son, who was believed to be the reincarnation of his father Nimrod. Nimrod dies but is born anew as his child Tammuz. Just like Osiris dies but lives on in his child Horus thanks to Isis the divine Wife/Mother.

Among the Amorites we have Baal and his consort Ashtoreth/Astarte (Ishtar).

Now, early catholic apologists supported their preference for the holy day of the sun god by arguing about "the 8th day" superiority. The Epistle of "Barnabas" is one such example. Other "Apologists" did likewise. So there is a connection between sun worship, the sun god, the day of the sun (Sunday), and the number 8.

Western music derived from "the church modes" or "church tones". There were originally seven modes in Greek classical music theory, but the catholics developed 8 modes or tones. Reading the old (and new) treatises on plainchant, Byzantine chant, Gregorian chant, etc (the origin of modern western music both sacred and secular) reveals the division of music into 8 modes was purely theological. The catholic sun god worshippers are hung up on 8 as a mystical number emblematic of the sun and Sunday.

So why did Jereboam propose an alternative Feast in the 8th month? Because he was promoting Baal- or Sun god worship. My hypothesis is that "8th day" thinking was connected to sun god baal worship back in Jereboam's day. In other words, I ask "Was Sunday a sacred day for ancient baal worshipping Canaanites?" That is what I'm researching, looking to see if the hypothesis is true or false.