A Case for Modesty

[SDG]

In speaking to a brother who is studying pastoral counseling, he told me recently, that when trying to assess what is behind a person's problems ...

one of the best questions to ask them is "What bothers you most about other people?" ...

many times, he said, whatever they answer is often what they are struggling w/ themselves .... and should be one of the first issues in addressing in subsequent counseling.

For example, if they answer, "I can't stand impatient people" ...they will most likely be impatient themselves ....

Psychologists call this defense mechanism ... projection ...

I'm not saying all holiness preachers are doing this ... but I've seen my share of them that were dealing w/ flesh issues ... and so their ministry focus was on "flesh"

[Rico]

People that abduct other people and kill them, like what happened in this case, choose their victims based on who they think is weak and most vulnerable to attack. Could her clothing have played a role in him finding her to be an easy target? Maybe. Did she get attacked for having shorts on? ABSOLUTELY NOT! This fella just saw her as an easy target.

[chaotic_resolve]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

In speaking to a brother who is studying pastoral counseling he told me recently that when trying to assess what is behind a person's problems ... one of the best questions to ask them is "What bothers you most about other people?" ... many times, he said, whatever they answer is often what they are struggling w/ themselves ....

For example, if they answer, "I can't stand impatient people" ...they will most likely be impatient themselves ....

Psychologists call this defense mechanism ... projection ...

I'm not saying all holiness preachers are doing this ... but I've seen my share of them that were dealing w/ flesh issues ... and so their focus was on "flesh"

Are you saying that ministers that preach a lot against immodest dress do so because they're secretly struggling with lust themselves!?!?!

Say it ain't so!

[SDG]

Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve

Are you saying that ministers that preach a lot against immodest dress do so because they're secretly struggling with lust themselves!?!?!

Say it ain't so!

some seek to standardize the limits they need in their own lives .... to apply to all ... when not all are struggling w/ the SAME STANDARD ISSUES OR STRUGGLES. Leaving no room for a Holy Ghost intervention ... the fence becomes the priority ....

[Pragmatist]

I saw the video and right or wrong, I immediately wondered if her lack of clothing played a role. If nothing else, the thread should be titled "A Case for Modesty", because there are cameras at stores that could show your immodest apparel to the world.

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

Even if she was naked, that is not an invitation... I understand that you are not placing any blame on her, but wanted to make that clear...

If everyone else was covering up to their ankles and one young lady flashed her calves, the problem is still in the mind of the person who is obsessing over the skin. This person could have been raised in a strict christian home and that was why he noticed the girl was dressed immodestly (if indeed that she was dressed more immodestly than other people in the store). I remember growing up, they talked about NOT having sex so much that it just made you think about sex more... there were times where I got sick of hearing about it.

Also, if this girl were to have dressed more modestly, and the guy moved onto someone else, how is this other girl any more deserving of what he did?

You mention that people who did not notice her immodesty are probably "conditioned" to not notice it... if this guy is a rapist, wouldn't he be "conditioned" to not notice it as well?

He might have been drawn to her because she was cute... should girls not try to look cute so that the guy has to choose from ugly girls?

Agree~ Women in many parts of the world wear Burka and they still get rape.

As soon as our son could understand we as parents taught him, no means no. "no questing asked"! If a young lady say no, she means no, and we don't care how undress or naked or hot you may be, no is just that, nor do you have the right to invade another space, even if they are running around in the buff. Maybe more parents should sit down with son and make it very clear it's their responsibility to control themselves ! A victim is just that, no matter had unclad or clad they were, this evil person had no right to cross over and invade another person space!

At least place the blame were it belongs, on the perpetrator not it's victim !

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

I highly doubt that the modesty had anything to do with this. I mean sure she may have been seductively dressed, but most of these type of things don't just come into a persons mind at that moment. Usually they plan it ahead or there is some sexual frustration in their life somewhere else and they see a hot girl and there you go. Modesty is not the key to everything, but I agree that it is a fair question. We will see what the outcome is.

Allot of men are frustrated sexually, that's apart of this fallen world, however the vast majority do not kill and rape. I believe we should be modest in our dress, but that will not stop this type of behavior. The burka does not protect Muslim ladies from this same demonic behavior, may even inflame it.

Extreme dress codes do nothing against sexual fantasy and imagination, only hearts changed by submission to God and disciplined by the Word of God will evil be rooted out of the hearts of men.

Modesty comes from the word moderate or moderation, and scripture instructs all believers to be moderate (reasonable) in all we do.

Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve

The suggestion was made more than once that her appearance could have been what caused it. It's like saying gun manufacturers could be liable for a shooting. Dumb.


She was young (18) and alone. She was vulnerable and, though I haven't seen her to know what her body type is, he probably felt she was weak and able to be abducted.

I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't have a clue what she was wearing, or wasn't motivated by her appearance.

My worldly friends like to poke fun of apostolics because they're so taken with appearance. To them, it's nothing to see miniskirts, short-shorts, tank tops or whatever. It's normal to see girls dressed like that. That's all they've known by being in the clubs and not growing up in a conservative environment. Yet to an apostolic it's the opposite.

It's ignorant to question appearance when the guy probably passed up many other scantily clad girls on the way to abduct his victim.

It wasn't her physical appearance and dress . . . it was her vulnerability that attracted him.

chaotic_resolve~ My younger sister work for the LAPD, she does forensics, she has shared many cases with me and dress is hardly ever the cause, in most cases it can be something as simply as bushing your hair back with your finger behind your ear, something within the motion itself, or a smell or just the way you move, any of these things can be a trigger, something that set them off, then the need to relieve and follow through to get the thrill and pleasure they seek. When I saw the video tape for the first time on T.V I saw a young gal, who looked very carefree and her vulnerability is showing, that's what attracted him.


As to what she was wearing, I didn't notice!

["GL"]

Good post, DC.

[Sacerdotal]

This thread has some of the most idiotic replies that I've seen on any forum!

I think some people hate bible principles so much that they will deny all truth to deny bible truth.

If you study serial killers you have to know that almost 100 percent of them say that their perversion started with pornography.

John Wayne Gacy

Ted Bundy

Jeff Dahmer

Look at more recent ones and they all say the same. It started with pornography and they fantasized their way to worse and worse.

Be honest and confess that pornography is only pornography due to a lack of modesty. Saying that dress and exposed flesh has nothing to do with some abductions is against everything honest. It may not have been a factor in this young females death but it is in many.

How far will people go? Denying known facts to deny bible themes is beyond strange. It's sad and pathetic.