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  #71  
Old 06-04-2007, 01:46 PM
Chan
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Originally Posted by Trouvere View Post
wrong prove it with history and bible
Note the entry in John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible for Judges 2:16, "Nevertheless, the Lord raised up judges
Who are particularly mentioned by name, and their exploits recorded, in some following chapters, and from whom the book in general has its name: these were men that God raised up in an extraordinary manner, and spirited and qualified for the work he had to do by them; which was to deliver the people of Israel out of the hands of their oppressors, and restore them to their privileges and liberties, and protect them in them, and administer justice to them; which was a wonderful instance of the goodness of God to them, notwithstanding their many provoking sins and transgressions."

Note the following from David Guzik's Commentary:


3. (16-19) The pattern of sin and bondage, deliverance, blessing, followed by sin and bondage again in the days of the Judges
a. God, because of His great love for His people, would raise up a judge - a hero - to rescue them from their calamity. God did this nevertheless - not because Israel got to a place where they deserved such a deliverer from God, but in spite of the fact that they were undeserving

Here's what the Jamieson, Faussett and Brown Commentary says:

The judges who governed Israel were strictly God's vicegerents in the government of the people, He being the supreme ruler. Those who were thus elevated retained the dignity as long as they lived; but there was no regular, unbroken succession of judges. Individuals, prompted by the inward, irresistible impulse of God's Spirit when they witnessed the depressed state of their country, were roused to achieve its deliverance. It was usually accompanied by a special call, and the people seeing them endowed with extraordinary courage or strength, accepted them as delegates of Heaven, and submitted to their sway. Frequently they were appointed only for a particular district, and their authority extended no farther than over the people whose interests they were commissioned to protect. They were without pomp, equipage, or emoluments attached to the office. They had no power to make laws; for these were given by God; nor to explain them, for that was the province of the priests--but they were officially upholders of the law, defenders of religion, avengers of all crimes, particularly of idolatry and its attendant vices.
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  #72  
Old 06-04-2007, 02:55 PM
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BrotherEastman BrotherEastman is offline
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Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne View Post
You need to run faster!
Truth hurts?
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  #73  
Old 06-04-2007, 03:07 PM
HeavenlyOne HeavenlyOne is offline
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Originally Posted by BrotherEastman View Post
Truth hurts?
Yes, but untruths hurt worse!
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
My Countdown Counting down to: My world crashing to the ground.
Is this what being 40 is all about???
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  #74  
Old 06-04-2007, 03:10 PM
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BrotherEastman BrotherEastman is offline
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Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne View Post
Yes, but untruths hurt worse!
Are you saying that I'm stereo-typing nurses? Remember, I'm a health care worker as well.
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  #75  
Old 06-04-2007, 03:14 PM
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Trouvere Trouvere is offline
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Brother Chan
If these commentaries were on the mark then how does that
account for 1Sam 8:1?


There are also commentaries that say otherwise than those which you have chosen.

Here is one exerpt:

The Judges of Israel

In the time of the Tribal Confederacy, there was no political unity among the tribes yet. So, during times of crises, God raised up "judges" - military heroes and leaders, who led His people Israel against their enemies, and helped keep justice in the land.

"Judges" in biblical context
The biblical book of Judges tells about how twelve judges (military champions or "deliverers" [Judg 2:16]) held leadership over the loosely organized Tribal Confederacy. Besides their military leadership, these judges also functioned as those handled legal disputes and arbitration among their people. When the legal dispute went beyond a particular tribe, usually these judges also have their authority extended to other tribes as well. Their authority was generally recognized within the territory of the Tribal Confederacy.

Charism and spiritual power
Judges do not function like kings and so their office is nonhereditary. Their office rested upon a special gift of God's Spirit - known as charisma, or spiritual power. To mention a few of these judges who were gifted by God with charisma, we take into account popular names like Deborah [Judg 4-5], Gideon [Judg 6:34-35], and Samson [Judg 14:6].
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  #76  
Old 06-04-2007, 03:21 PM
Chan
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Originally Posted by Trouvere View Post
Brother Chan
If these commentaries were on the mark then how does that
account for 1Sam 8:1?


There are also commentaries that say otherwise than those which you have chosen.

Here is one exerpt:

The Judges of Israel

In the time of the Tribal Confederacy, there was no political unity among the tribes yet. So, during times of crises, God raised up "judges" - military heroes and leaders, who led His people Israel against their enemies, and helped keep justice in the land.

"Judges" in biblical context
The biblical book of Judges tells about how twelve judges (military champions or "deliverers" [Judg 2:16]) held leadership over the loosely organized Tribal Confederacy. Besides their military leadership, these judges also functioned as those handled legal disputes and arbitration among their people. When the legal dispute went beyond a particular tribe, usually these judges also have their authority extended to other tribes as well. Their authority was generally recognized within the territory of the Tribal Confederacy.

Charism and spiritual power
Judges do not function like kings and so their office is nonhereditary. Their office rested upon a special gift of God's Spirit - known as charisma, or spiritual power. To mention a few of these judges who were gifted by God with charisma, we take into account popular names like Deborah [Judg 4-5], Gideon [Judg 6:34-35], and Samson [Judg 14:6].
What you quoted is not in conflict with the commentaries I quoted. Both show exactly what I said: that these judges did not hold political authority.
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  #77  
Old 06-04-2007, 03:22 PM
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LadyRev LadyRev is offline
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Awwww Bishop, you must miss me! I'm touched! I'm sorry I can't stay to play. I'm just way too busy these days...as HeavenlyOne already mentioned.

Anyway, I just thought I'd pop in to say...

I'm preaching this Wednesday night in my pastor's absence! Too bad you are too far away to attend cause you sure are invited! I'd even let you "testify"...maybe...

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  #78  
Old 06-04-2007, 03:25 PM
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Sister Alvear Sister Alvear is offline
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I pray that God's spirit may rest on me...names, titles,etc that people fuss about mean nothing in the face of the REAL FOE...Deborah came to the resure of God's people. The angles cursed those that did not help Deborah..so her role must have been more than making tea...
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  #79  
Old 06-04-2007, 03:25 PM
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Trouvere Trouvere is offline
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Yes they did go back and read it.This in particular:
Besides their military leadership, these judges also functioned as those handled legal disputes and arbitration among their people. When the legal dispute went beyond a particular tribe, usually these judges also have their authority extended to other tribes as well. Their authority was generally recognized within the territory of the Tribal Confederacy.
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  #80  
Old 06-04-2007, 03:30 PM
SISTER Murphy
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Originally Posted by Chan View Post
Being a judge was not a leadership position; judges had no actual political authority (since God was supposed to be the political authority).
Chancellor, I am afraid your scholarship is lacking in this subject. Here's the definition for word "judged", used in the verses listed after it:

08199 // jpv // shaphat // shaw-fat' //

a primitive root; TWOT - 2443; v

AV - judge (v) 119, judge (n) 60, plead 11, avenged 2, condemn 2,
execute 2, judgment 2, defend 1, deliver 1, misc 3; 203

1) to judge, govern, vindicate, punish
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to act as law-giver or judge or governor (of God, man)
1a1a) to rule, govern, judge
1a2) to decide controversy (of God, man)
1a3) to execute judgment
1a3a) discriminating (of man)
1a3b) vindicating
1a3c) condemning and punishing
1a3d) at theophanic advent for final judgment
1b) (Niphal)
1b1) to enter into controversy, plead, have controversy together
1b2) to be judged
1c) (Poel) judge, opponent-at-law (participle)

Judges 3:9-10
And when the children of Israel cried unto the LORD, the LORD raised up a deliverer to the children of Israel, who delivered them, even Othniel the son of Kenaz, Caleb's younger brother.
And the Spirit of the LORD came upon him, and he judged Israel, and went out to war: and the LORD delivered Chushan-rishathaim king of Mesopotamia into his hand; and his hand prevailed against Chushan-rishathaim.

Judges 4:4-5
And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time.
And she dwelt under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in mount Ephraim: and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment.

Judges 10:1-3
And after Abimelech there arose to defend Israel Tola the son of Puah, the son of Dodo, a man of Issachar; and he dwelt in Shamir in mount Ephraim.
And he judged Israel twenty and three years, and died, and was buried in Shamir.
And after him arose Jair, a Gileadite, and judged Israel twenty and two years.

Judges 12:7-9, 11-14
And Jephthah judged Israel six years. Then died Jephthah the Gileadite, and was buried in one of the cities of Gilead.
And after him Ibzan of Bethlehem judged Israel.
And he had thirty sons, and thirty daughters, whom he sent abroad, and took in thirty daughters from abroad for his sons. And he judged Israel seven years.
And after him Elon, a Zebulonite, judged Israel; and he judged Israel ten years.
And Elon the Zebulonite died, and was buried in Aijalon in the country of Zebulun.
And after him Abdon the son of Hillel, a Pirathonite, judged Israel.
And he had forty sons and thirty nephews, that rode on threescore and ten ass colts: and he judged Israel eight years.

Judges 16:30-31
And Samson said, Let me die with the Philistines. And he bowed himself with all his might; and the house fell upon the lords, and upon all the people that were therein. So the dead which he slew at his death were more than they which he slew in his life.
Then his brethren and all the house of his father came down, and took him, and brought him up, and buried him between Zorah and Eshtaol in the burying place of Manoah his father. And he judged Israel twenty years.

I Samuel 4:16-18
And the man said unto Eli, I am he that came out of the army, and I fled to day out of the army. And he said, What is there done, my son?
And the messenger answered and said, Israel is fled before the Philistines, and there hath been also a great slaughter among the people, and thy two sons also, Hophni and Phinehas, are dead, and the ark of God is taken.
And it came to pass, when he made mention of the ark of God, that he fell from off the seat backward by the side of the gate, and his neck brake, and he died: for he was an old man, and heavy. And he had judged Israel forty years.

I Samuel 7:6, 15-17
And they gathered together to Mizpeh, and drew water, and poured it out before the LORD, and fasted on that day, and said there, We have sinned against the LORD. And Samuel judged the children of Israel in Mizpeh.
And Samuel judged Israel all the days of his life.
And he went from year to year in circuit to Bethel, and Gilgal, and Mizpeh, and judged Israel in all those places.
And his return was to Ramah; for there was his house; and there he judged Israel; and there he built an altar unto the LORD.

Like it or not, right in the middle of all of those male judges was a woman who had the SAME God given authority to judge (see definition above) Israel (the entire nation), and judge (see definition above) them she did.
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