The Myth of the Tiny Radical Muslim Minority

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

I understand why you say this, and why it might feel like abandoning your faith to reflect upon how love comes before the cross.

Nothing comes before the cross. Nothing but the love of God toward us, which implies our love toward anything else is non-redemptive. Again, if loving comes before the cross, and it is OUR love, that is salvation by works, whether it's works of love or not. And that kind of love is the world's love that states homosexuality must not be called a sin or else one hates homosexuals, as much as religious people cannot be said to be lost since that's hateful. That is the current spirit of the world.

True statement:

Our culture has accepted two huge lies. The first is that if you disagree with someone's lifestyle, you must fear or hate them. The second is that to love someone you agree with everything they believe or do. Both are nonsense. You don't have to compromise convictions to be compassionate.

It was scary to do this;

It should be scary to take these statements:

1Jn 2:22-23 KJV Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. (23) Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

And compare them with these:

Q'uran
Sura 4.171 Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.

Sura 6.101 Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth! How could He have a son when He has no consort, and He (Himself) created everything, and He is the Knower of all things.

Sura 9.30 And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

Sura 10.68 They say: Allah has taken a son (to Himself)! Glory be to Him: He is the Self-sufficient: His is what is in the heavens and what is in the earth; you have no authority for this; do you say against Allah what you do not know?

...and think there is no association and John did not speak about the very thing the Q'uran spoke about. You should be scared. One a dark spirit would lead one to think there is no worries for the statements above in the Q'uran.

Seeing no problem between these bible texts and the Q'uran's texts is not seeking to know Christ more, it is, in itself, denying Christ to so much as consider that. In fact, saying the Q'uran's statements DO NOT violate the Bible's truth and DO NOT imply danger in Islamic faith is to deny the Son of God.

which should possibly be a clue, as after all we are talking about seeking a deeper understanding of Christ, not denying Him.

When words in plain language in the bible no longer mean what they say, it is not a desire to seek to know Christi more deeply. but a deception. God does not do anything contrary to His word. And when a concept disagrees with the plain reading of the Word, it is the concept that is mistaken, not the word. If two passages of Scripture seem to contradict, it is the mind of the reader that is missing something, not a contradiction in translation.

But really it amounts to forgetting something we were taught, not something that is hard to understand; hence why one must become like a child.

Becoming like a child is not casting away plain biblical statements and pretending direct objects of their warnings are not the actual objects. Becoming like a child is accepting the truth the bible speaks without hesitation and with full confidence and trust without requiring proof. In short, it's the ease of the acceptance that is noted in the phrase faith is the evidence of things not seen. It's accepting the word of God as it is without arguing with it or doubting it whatsoever. It's like Noah building an ark for over a hundred years based upon nothing more than a word from God, with no visible evidence.

themsleves I am first called to love my enemies; but i am not perfect, and will fail at this sometimes. I have faith in Christ's sacrifice to cover me for those times.

Faith in Christ's sacrifice that you cannot even have faith in for remission of sins and imputed righteousness? Faith in Christ's sacrifice that you think IS NOT NECESSARY for a soul to be saved? Faith in Christ's sacrifice who is the Son, when you think denial of the Son does not rob one of eternal life when the word flatly states it does?

And while it might be tempting for me to write "same to you but more of it" or whatever--@ "denying Father and Son"--that would be a sin to me, not encouragement, cutting you off or down in a sense, you who are also seeking Christ as best you know how. So i am called to overlook your characterization of my faith, which i might be tempted to call "sin," but is after all just truth as you see it. For instance.

It is cutting a person down to inform them there is danger ahead in continuing the route that does not believe the shed blood of Jesus is the only way for sins to be remitted and the only route to heaven due to it being the only means of righteousness that exists?

You might think it is noble to believe taking the word of God (that states denial of the Son is grounds for damnation since it's not "nice" to make people feel bad), but truth is truth. And it can indeed be presented to sinners in a manner of love even though it (not the presenter) convicts the sinner, because the sinner has to know he is a sinner before he can repent.

It is a lie that says presentation of the truth of the bible to a sinner who is caught in the very sins the bible specifies is cutting them down, so that such presentation in itself is sin. That is one of the deepest deceptions I have yet seen.

It's way beyond, "Yeah, back at you." We're talking about direct statements of the word being relegated to nothing.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

Similarly, if you seek where you might differ with a Muslim, you will surely find some area.

You don't say!

BIBLE
1Jn 2:22-23 KJV Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. (23) Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

VERSUS

Q'uran
Sura 4.171 Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.

Sura 6.101 Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth! How could He have a son when He has no consort, and He (Himself) created everything, and He is the Knower of all things.

Sura 9.30 And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

Sura 10.68 They say: Allah has taken a son (to Himself)! Glory be to Him: He is the Self-sufficient: His is what is in the heavens and what is in the earth; you have no authority for this; do you say against Allah what you do not know?

Same goes with your best friend, or mate. If you talk to anyone long enough, you will find some area to disagree on if you look for it. Muslims were put on this earth to contend with you; but it takes two to tango. If you are inclined or convinced to contend, then you will find a willing adversary.

My fight is not with Muslims. or any other human being. Not even you. My fight is with lies and principalities. And my weapon is the word of God. And my enemy in this conversation is the lies you've been led to believe, not with you. You're a precious soul in the sight of God. Your soul alone is worth more than the whole world to God. You're not my enemy. The Muslim is not my enemy. My enemy is what both of you believe.

[shazeep]

ok, but see that maybe you have answered "whom shall i fear?" with "people who see Christ reflected in "Love your neighbor."

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

ok, but see that maybe you have answered "whom shall i fear?" with "people who see Christ reflected in "Love your neighbor."

We fear no one. We can hate no one. And true love for our neighbor cannot even occur with Christ indwelling us first, after we've come into union with him through his death by faith. Then, as Paul said, he's in us to live through us. That's the true love people will see in genuine fruit.

[Praxeas]

There is an underlying Islamic Ideology that leads to these sorts of actions that the rest of the silent majority support...

[Sean]

I watch the Muslim rhetoric very carefully.

Though the Muslim cleric says these killings are an outrage, they NEVER say that those that kill innocent people are going to hell.

The Muslims think, in the back of their minds, the act is an act of righteousness, earning salvation as THEY ALL read in the Koran.

When the clerics begin to teach that these murderers are hell bound, then the terrorists will stop.

Otherwise, the attacks will continue.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

There is an underlying Islamic Ideology that leads to these sorts of actions that the rest of the silent majority support...

Exactly. Well put.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

There is an underlying Islamic Ideology that leads to these sorts of actions that the rest of the silent majority support...

helped along by drone bombs, no doubt. But there is also a huge outcry among Muslims, that you don't get to hear, Prax. So, you get to pick which you listen to, and what becomes truth for you. And you are making a choice, whether it be conscious or unconscious.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Sean

I watch the Muslim rhetoric very carefully.

Though the Muslim cleric says these killings are an outrage, they NEVER say that those that kill innocent people are going to hell.

The Muslims think, in the back of their minds, the act is an act of righteousness, earning salvation as THEY ALL read in the Koran.

When the clerics begin to teach that these murderers are hell bound, then the terrorists will stop.

Otherwise, the attacks will continue.

oh, they never say that? Are you sure? Are you willing to bet your life on it?

And saying "THEY ALL read the Qur'an" is even further south of "all Christians read the Bible" than you apparently realize, as they do not have the same literacy rate that we do. You call Muslims terrorists because that is what you absorb all day. If this was 30 years ago, they would be Russians.

The attacks will continue and increase because we justify a "war on terrorism," and statistics on any of our other "wars" will bear this out, as you, the nominal Religious Right, thump your Bible and lead the way.

[shazeep]

so just don't be surprised when your retirement plans all become flush with war and defense stocks, and your economy becomes further disconnected from reality, and your cities all start looking like Michigan.