Question about Acts 2:38: What about the martyrs?

[n david]

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by n david

I think shazeep is a member of a UFO cult.

[shazeep]

it would be great if we could just return to Azusa St, huh. But thinking like this puts one in league with those who say times past were better than these times; or "Come quickly, Lord." God has a better idea.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by shazeep

it would be great if we could just return to Azusa St, huh. But thinking like this puts one in league with those who say times past were better than these times; or "Come quickly, Lord." God has a better idea.

Well, it seems to me you are waiting for Sri RamaKrishna, Jesus, and Krishna Murti in the mothership to pick you up and bring you to Gamma Epsilon. In this way you can reunite with the star children.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by shazeep

well, i don't know any of those people. But if you wish to equate "they are lost" with "love your enemies," and then pretend you are not hating them, or providing tacit permission to oppress them, then who am i to stop you. I suggest that Muslims are just the most convenient target for an agenda of hate, for whatever reason. I suspect that it is because they were conceived to contend with us, as per Scripture.

Loving your enemy? How about loving someone enough to tell them where they are wrong? you know like what YOU ARE DOING HERE!

[shazeep]

yes, that is a very valid point. the smart ones just leave, i guess. ok, peace.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Well, it seems to me you are waiting for Sri RamaKrishna, Jesus, and Krishna Murti in the mothership to pick you up and bring you to Gamma Epsilon. In this way you can reunite with the star children.

ya...imagine how Christ was perceived, going to eat with tax collectors, and hanging out with sinners. The first one was a capital offense then. "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility lies in being superior to your former self." You just cannot square they are all lost with humility, or love your enemies. Whether they are any loster than you ceases to be the point.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

how does it feel?

Matters not to me. Lol

because this is not about whether Muslims are lost or not; it is about all the time and effort you have wasted, if your response to the Good News is "All ______ are lost."

I said I dealt with the details and reasoning of why the cross alone saves. Then you chimed in and said the heat of the Bible is in Quran, after which I said it denies salvation by the cross. So you lost the actual point of the chat with wii.

The question always was is salvation by works is condemned or not. You never saw that point. The way you keep pointing to Job and the good Samaritan, the more it's evident you also don't look to the work of God. Then you really showed that, when you said salvation by works is on the level of little issues like incest, rather than attacking the core of the bible. The core!

At least consider how you might have fallen into a self serving doctrine. I did not mock them, either, their spirit is vital--but you argue over words, which will not save you. Memorize the Bible, if you like--it will still be measured to you the way you measure to others. If "the sea" has no meaning for you, then disregard it--that must have been for someone else.

It's far from memorizing a word. It's a monumental change of entire life to believe God did the work to save us. But you've already shown the cross is insignificant by lowering it to something like not committing incest. So the whole chat about world's contrasted from faith makes you categorize that faith with the issue of no incest.

Of what concern is it to you that all Muslims are lost, if you are lost, too?

Circular reasoning. But anyway, you're not even trying to see the point I feel you miss, thinking you actually do see it but refuse to engage it.

If you sound just like everyone else--the sea--on a matter, how do you imagine that you are any higher than them?

Since God saves, no one can be higher than another. Think.

And then you think that you can guide someone to the details and reasoning of salvation by the cross? Why, when i have shown you by the simplest passages that you are lost, and you do not accept it? Was he supposed to have a different reaction from yours? I submit to you that he did have a different reaction--he is no longer here!

Since you cannot get our point, nothing you say is relevant here. You're committing the accusation you made of me.

He came to correct views of Muslims. He came to prove Muslims aren't really behind terrorism. I get his point. But he didn't expect a challenge about salvation by works. He said he'd be back again with others if the issue of terrorism kept going. He never left because of anyone accusing anyone of hell bait.

He could not deal worn salvation by works. It genuinely boggled him. He at least saw the point, and the contrast was unexpected.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

yes, that is a very valid point. the smart ones just leave, i guess. ok, peace.
ya...imagine how Christ was perceived, going to eat with tax collectors, and hanging out with sinners. The first one was a capital offense then. "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility lies in being superior to your former self." You just cannot square they are all lost with humility, or love your enemies. Whether they are any loster than you ceases to be the point.

Because it's not by works, s.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

you can always find some justification for anything, mike--even "Muslims are lost"--if that is what you are looking for. If you try looking for the truth in what i have said, rather than dissecting the words, looking for some little slip, you can find that, too. Setting free will be reflected in your speech, and you have announced your premises already. Yes, they might be at odds with your intentions. This is why we say the road to hell is paved with the good ones.

Don't expect anyone to react any differently than you do to "You are lost." I am telling you that with the best of intentions, also. You are lost. Is that encouraging? Does it sound loving to you? I have backed it up with Scripture--why are you not responding? See why prostitutes and tax collectors are accepted, and lawyers are not. And heed the fruit, which can't be ignored, imo.

If you'd actually try to see the point, it sounds like you could talk about this.

I'm not making this a priority since I think it is a waste of time. So it's only spare time stuff. But at least I'm trying,... putting in little points, while you've entirely given up learning anything here. You can't imagine you may have missed something.

Your purposely not trying to focus on the point, thinking you know it. You imagined a scenario and convinced yourself it's right. It's not.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by shazeep

yes, that is a very valid point. the smart ones just leave, i guess. ok, peace.
ya...imagine how Christ was perceived, going to eat with tax collectors, and hanging out with sinners.

You see you are a bit mixed up in your belief system because you have your theology a little jammed up. Jesus didn't "fellowship" unrepentant tax collectors (like Matthew) or party with sinners, nor was He a drunkard.
You see people who parrot that Jesus was a friend of tax collectors and sinners, always seem to leave off an important part of Jesus' quote. Which says that He was a glutton and a drunkard. Now, in Luke 7:33 Jesus also makes the statement that John the Baptist had a demon. Yet, Jesus is not stating facts here, Jesus is repeating accusations against Him and John.

Jesus wasn't condoning the sins of the sinners while drinking wine with them, patting them on the backs and telling them that He loved them in the state they were currently in. No, Jesus came to tell men to repent, John's message was a message to repent. Muslims need to repent of their rock worship in Mecca, and following Muhammed and his teachings.

Originally Posted by shazeep

y
The first one was a capital offense then. "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility lies in being superior to your former self." You just cannot square they are all lost with humility, or love your enemies. Whether they are any loster than you ceases to be the point.

Just because you tell someone they will die lost unless they repent. Has nothing to do with superiority. It means you love them enough to tell them they are wrong. You are all hung up with enabling people, and poo pooing around people's feelings. That sounds like "Im ok your ok" touchy feely mess that could get a fly high. I was glad when they said unto me, let us go to the house of the Lord. Being part of New Age UFO cults might work for your friends at Starbucks, but in the real world it just doesn't get the job done.


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