Question about Acts 2:38: What about the martyrs?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by shazeep

does that really make you feel any better?

No, not all, I fail to see any benefit coming from posting with someone who feels the need to indulge in the smoking of reefer cigarettes as they post.

[shazeep]

ah, gotcha. And i guess you are just going to keep pretending that that is how it reads to everyone else. I understand that i am challenging you in a sense; so do you have a different characterization you would like to forward? Other than personal ones, i mean?

Originally Posted by mfblume

Shazeep. How would you answer a muslim who asked this?

"The bible says salvation by works is a doctrine that will cause a soul to be lost. I believe and practice the doctrine of salvation by works. Am I lost?"

Trying to figure out how you think the way you do.

i would have no idea whether you are lost or not, and neither would anyone else. Trust that those who are the most sure know the least, as with most knowledge. What do you mean by this doctrine? The definitions vary considerably. If you mean the works done by the First Son of the vineyard owner, or the Good Samaritan, or the several other examples of those rejected by men but accepted by God, then obviously these are held up as acceptable. If you mean the works done by Job, then you just as obviously have a problem; God will not honor your sacrifices. The difference--since after all, they might be identical works--comes down to the state of your heart, which no man is qualified to judge--as they never have all the facts--yet which is nonetheless crystal clear to all of your peers. Do you do works expecting a return, or will you mention them again at some advantageous time, etc. It is not a puzzle.

Note however a fatal flaw, that being depending upon what this person is saying about their beliefs; which is really valueless; as is the spurious "faith v works" argument. The two go hand-in-hand; one proves the other. Faith without works is equally worthless. You would be much better served to observe their fruit, and even then, this should be with the aim of how best to encourage them. You are kidding yourself if you think you were put here to become expert in judging the state of other people's salvation, if for no other reason than that many people reveal their hearts late in life, and fall away from their faith, when they realize that God is not going to behave as they had expected. And yes, i am aware of the verses that make people feel qualified to judge others--the humility traps, meant for personal application, that you use as ammunition.

So let me be perfectly clear; every time you tell someone that they are saved, or lost, you are lying to them, and to yourself. As long as you continue to even come to such decisions about individuals in your heart, you prove that you do not follow Christ. But don't worry too much, because no one else really is, either. As long as you don't fall into the fatal trap of believing you have not sinned in a day, possibly for days on end, there is always a chance. A slim one. Prostitutes and tax collectors have better odds.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by shazeep

So let me be perfectly clear; every time you tell someone that they are saved, or lost, you are lying to them, and to yourself. As long as you continue to even come to such decisions about individuals in your heart, you prove that you do not follow Christ. But don't worry too much, because no one else really is, either. As long as you don't fall into the fatal trap of believing you have not sinned in a day, possibly for days on end, there is always a chance. A slim one.

What about the Apostle Paul?

In his epistles he speaks of those who he judged as needing to be turned over to Satan (doesn't sound like a good thing) 1 Corinthians 5:5 as well as Hymenaeus and Philetus 2 Timothy 2:17-18, plus Alexander the coppersmith was to be rewarded according to his evil works 1 Timothy 1:20 , also Paul knew that some had been turned over to reprobate minds Romans 1:28. Was Paul lying? Or even a better question do you believe that Paul was really an apostle?

[Sean]

2 Timothy 2:17-18

17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Hey, I know folks like that!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Sean

2 Timothy 2:17-18

17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Hey, I know folks like that!

Turned over to Satan?

Yes you do, it is YOU.

Sean, you would join the devil to come after me.

You are seether.

So you believe Muslims are saved?

[Sean]

Did I mention you?...Hmmm, a guilty conscience...LOL

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Sean

Did I mention you?...Hmmm, a guilty conscience...LOL

Sean, it is called memory, you have posted that to us before. Remeber?

[Sean]

Again, you just now inadvertently admitted of being like these guys, Hymenaeus and Philetus, ...naughty, naughty...LOL

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Sean

Again, you just now inadvertently admitted of being like these guys, Hymenaeus and Philetus, ...naughty, naughty...LOL

Sean, you posted that to me, and others implying the same stuff you are implying right now. You don't change your tactics Sean. You play the same game over and over. Do you smoke a fatty before posting?

[Sean]

LOL