Question about Acts 2:38: What about the martyrs?

[Aquila]

I honestly feel like we're still very much "babes" when it comes to all of this. Acts 2:38 mentions repentance, water baptism in the name, and Holy Spirit infilling. We read this and apply it in the context of its literal surface meaning and our own tradition. We don't delve into the deeper realities behind repentance, baptism, and Spirit infilling. We do not see how justification, identification, and regeneration are eternal spiritual realities of conversion that Acts 2:38 is designed to bring a convert into. Since we don't see these more spiritual realities, we essentially ritualize the verse and begin requiring a rigid adherence to what we believe it should be and look like... outwardly.

This troubles me. Much of Apostolic Christianity has yet to graduate from the superficial into the deeper spiritual realities truly found in our faith.

[shazeep]

no kidding. "...and their worship consists of man-made rules learned by rote." seems to apply here--but then, it is a religious forum, after all. And that might be just a phase everyone goes through.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Is English your first language?

no, sorry

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by shazeep

no, sorry

I thought so.

[ApostolicKitty]

Originally Posted by Disciple4life

Ha! HA!! HAA!!! LOL I love it when people can throw a little science fiction into a debate! Actually are we talking about religious fiction?

Looks like a little of both... Sci-fi for fun. Religious fiction being that a person can baptize themselves. Even Acts 2:38 says "be baptized".

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I honestly feel like we're still very much "babes" when it comes to all of this. Acts 2:38 mentions repentance, water baptism in the name, and Holy Spirit infilling. We read this and apply it in the context of its literal surface meaning and our own tradition. We don't delve into the deeper realities behind repentance, baptism, and Spirit infilling. We do not see how justification, identification, and regeneration are eternal spiritual realities of conversion that Acts 2:38 is designed to bring a convert into. Since we don't see these more spiritual realities, we essentially ritualize the verse and begin requiring a rigid adherence to what we believe it should be and look like... outwardly.

This troubles me. Much of Apostolic Christianity has yet to graduate from the superficial into the deeper spiritual realities truly found in our faith.

Please explain.

[shazeep]

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I honestly feel like we're still very much "babes" when it comes to all of this. Acts 2:38 mentions repentance, water baptism in the name, and Holy Spirit infilling. We read this and apply it in the context of its literal surface meaning and our own tradition. We don't delve into the deeper realities behind repentance, baptism, and Spirit infilling. We do not see how justification, identification, and regeneration are eternal spiritual realities of conversion that Acts 2:38 is designed to bring a convert into. Since we don't see these more spiritual realities, we essentially ritualize the verse and begin requiring a rigid adherence to what we believe it should be and look like... outwardly.

This troubles me. Much of Apostolic Christianity has yet to graduate from the superficial into the deeper spiritual realities truly found in our faith.

Aquila are you speaking for all of us?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Please explain.

Re-read it. It's pretty self explanatory. Point is... experiencing the spiritual realities of Acts 2:38 doesn't always look exactly like the UPCI expects it to. The Spiritual realities in the conversion experience as described in Acts 2:38 are justification, identification, and regeneration. As we have seen... Spirit infilling (regeneration) can precede baptism (out of Acts 2:38 order). This is a very dynamic spiritual experience.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

no kidding. "...and their worship consists of man-made rules learned by rote." seems to apply here--but then, it is a religious forum, after all. And that might be just a phase everyone goes through.

no, sorry

Sort of like salvation by works like Muslims, eh? So why question them?

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Sort of like salvation by works like Muslims, eh? So why question them?

oh, no doubt many Muslims attempt salvation by works, also, but as i said, they have Job, too. I'm not quite getting your "why question them;" Which them? Why Q the one and not the other? My answer would be "because i am not Muslim, and so would not presume to dictate to an unfamiliar culture; and because i am nominally a Christian--depending of course upon how one defines that--and so hope to help reveal Aquila's point here." If women will be saved in childbirth, and some women are Muslim, then it has not been grasped how "all Muslims are lost" cannot be true.

I'm assuming we all get the difference in "works" and "good deeds" here. Job practiced works; the good Samaritan did a good deed. If either serve the ego, they are vanity. This is how two may be working in a field, and one is taken while the other is left--the state of their heart.

When you win, you lose. This is a very hard piece of oneself to give up--as i demonstrate..all the time, lol. You have to lose, in order to win. You do not need all Muslims to be lost, in order to be saved. No switch gets thrown when one completes the ritual of Acts 2:38 as...Pentecostals understand it. It would serve them better to abandon that verse entirely now, believe it or not. Virtually all of the meaning has been warped out of it. You cannot accept Christ with your mouth.