Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Fellowship Hall > The Newsroom > Political Talk
Facebook

Notices

Political Talk Political News


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-19-2015, 06:54 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,073
Who are the sovereigns?

The people (the true sovereigns) of a State bypass their State legislature and elect delegates to hold a convention on the secession of their State from the Union. The elected representatives of the people of that State, after much sober deliberation, and acting in the authority of the true sovereigns (the people), vote to recall the few and defined powers they had delegated to the Federal Government of the USA in the Constitution.

Such an act of the people could not be labeled as "treasonous" as such conventions were used by the sovereigns (people) of the States to ratify the U.S. Constitution. Ratification of the Constitution was not an act of the State governments, but was carried out by the true sovereigns of each State, the people.

To encourage hesitant States to ratify the constitution, James Madison said...

Quote:
On examining the first relation, it appears, on one hand, that the Constitution is to be founded on the assent and ratification of the people of America, given by deputies elected for the special purpose; but, on the other, that this assent and ratification is to be given by the people, not as individuals composing one entire nation, but as composing the distinct and independent States to which they respectively belong. It is to be the assent and ratification of the several States, derived from the supreme authority in each State, the authority of the people themselves. The act, therefore, establishing the Constitution, will not be a national, but a federal act.

That it will be a federal and not a national act, as these terms are understood by the objectors; the act of the people, as forming so many independent States, not as forming one aggregate nation, is obvious from this single consideration, that it is to result neither from the decision of a majority of the people of the Union, nor from that of a majority of the States. It must result from the unanimous assent of the several States that are parties to it, differing no otherwise from their ordinary assent than in its being expressed, not by the legislative authority, but by that of the people themselves.

Were the people regarded in this transaction as forming one nation, the will of the majority of the whole people of the United States would bind the minority, in the same manner as the majority in each State must bind the minority; and the will of the majority must be determined either by a comparison of the individual votes, or by considering the will of the majority of the States as evidence of the will of a majority of the people of the United States. Neither of these rules have been adopted. Each State, in ratifying the Constitution, is considered as a sovereign body, independent of all others, and only to be bound by its own voluntary act. In this relation, then, the new Constitution will, if established, be a federal, and not a national constitution.

Who are the parties to it (the proposed Constitution)? The people—not the people as composing one great body, but the people as composing thirteen sovereignties.
If the sovereigns of a State chose to no longer be bound to the Union, by what authority could the USA stop them? Notice Madison said that we are not even a "one nation" in the truest sense. It seems that Barack Obama was not the first President from Illinois that completely disregarded the clear statements of the Founders.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-19-2015, 07:15 PM
shazeep shazeep is offline
Banned


 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: chasin Grace
Posts: 9,594
Re: Who are the sovereigns?

this sovereignty has now been largely usurped; and erodes more daily. Max Keiser discussed it tonight--in the first half.

oh--you're paying for it, too, of course
  #3  
Old 02-20-2015, 02:16 AM
Esaias's Avatar
Esaias Esaias is offline
Unvaxxed Pureblood


 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,729
Re: Who are the sovereigns?

By what authority? By the same authority DC stopped the southern states from seceding - by force of arms.

The victors determine what was "legal" as usual.
__________________
Visit the Apostolic House Church YouTube Channel!


Biblical Worship - free pdf http://www.pdf-archive.com/2016/02/21/biblicalworship4/

Conditional immortality proven - https://ia800502.us.archive.org/3/it...surrection.pdf

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-20-2015, 06:06 AM
Originalist Originalist is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,073
Re: Who are the sovereigns?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
By what authority? By the same authority DC stopped the southern states from seceding - by force of arms.

The victors determine what was "legal" as usual.
Actually the southern States used the very method I referred to in my OP. There was no "rush to secession" as some suppose. Lincoln simply refused to admit that the people of the States were the sovereigns.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Who are the Sovereigns in our system? Originalist Political Talk 1 05-28-2013 09:34 PM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by Salome
- by Salome
- by Amanah

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.