Islam: A Religion of Lies...

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Here is what was going on down at the Masjid.

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/201...charges-mosque

In 1993, Raashib entered the U.S. at Miami International Airport, was arrested for carrying more than 8 pounds of marijuana and served 61 days in county jail, the affidavit states. He was not deported.

Yeah - he's quite a "Muslim"

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Canadian child molesting Imam

http://wn.com/canada_muslim_imam_mol...ex_abuse_child

"If he did this it is unforgivable" is the message from his own flock

Had to go awhile back did you? Here's one from last month.

Former Bethel United Pentecostal Church Youth Pastor Dylan Ritterman Arrested for Alleged Sexual Abuse of Boys

Dylan Ritterman, 24, a former youth pastor with the Bethel United Pentecostal Church in Hillsboro, Oregon, was recently arrested on 14 counts of sexual abuse, apparently involving two boys.

According to the Oregonian’s Laura Frazier, Ritterman was arrested on December 18 after the mother of one of the boys alerted Hillsboro Police in October and an investigation was conducted.

According to the article, Hillsboro Police Lieutenant Mike Rouches stated, “At least one incident is believed to have occurred in a room at the church and at least one other in a car after Ritterman drove a boy home.”

This news comes on the heels of another recent arrest involving another local church youth volunteer, Christopher Gonzales, who is in jail on charges that he sexually abused at least one young girl.

Wow look. ANOTHER from just last month

A Hot Springs youth pastor accused of rape has been arrested, according to the Garland County sheriff's department.

The Jefferson County sheriff's department arrested Andrew Lee Jackson, 28 of Hot Springs, in White Hall Monday night. He faces three counts of rape.

Police started the investigation involving Jackson and a 13-year-old girl Nov. 7, according to an arrest report.

Police said that the teen told investigators she and Jackson engaged in sexual intercourse three times at Jackson's home between August and October.

The Victory Tabernacle of Hot Springs United Pentecostal Church lists Jackson as the church's youth pastor on its Facebook page.

The victim told police she couldn't remember what happened during the first sexual encounter, but that Jackson told her she did consent to what took place, according to the arrest report.

She also disclosed that she and Jackson had sex two more times, once in September and a final time in October, the report said.

Police interviewed Jackson Dec. 11 with an attorney present and he confirmed that he is the juvenile's youth pastor and that she often stayed overnight at his house and would sleep in the living room, according to police.

Jackson denied having any relationship other than that of a youth pastor with the juvenile, according to the report.

The arrest report states that police viewed "inappropriate text messages" taken from the victim's cell phone between her and Jackson. Jackson made comments in the texts such as, "I love you so much," and "I missed you this weekend terribly," according to police, who noted the exchanges "indicated Jackson has much more than a youth pastor relationship" with the victim.


And another - lil older

The former senior pastor of the First United Pentecostal Church in Redding today pleaded guilty to five felony counts of child molestation in exchange for a 16-year prison sentence.

David Leon Bishop, 65, who remains free of custody on $100,000 bail, is scheduled for sentencing on March 12, said Shasta County Deputy District Attorney Ben Hanna, who prosecuted the case.

Bishop was arrested in early October and charged with 47 felony counts of lewd and lascivious conduct with a child under the age of 14, as well as 47 related enhancements.

He pleaded guilty to five counts of lewd and lascivious conduct and could have faced life in prison if tried and convicted of the charges against him, said Hanna.

Can't this just go on and on and on......

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Here's one Imam who made a little ice cream money

https://windsorcoactforamerica.wordp...d-zero-mosque/

Here's an employment scam y'all were running.

DAVAO CITY -- A pastor of the United Pentecostal Church and 12 other men were arrested Saturday by the National Bureau of Investigation (NBI)-Davao for illegal recruitment.

The suspects were arrested around 4 p.m. at the function hall of GV Hotel on Magallanes Street.

Arresting lawmen nabbed Christopher Chavez, 40, who introduced himself as the former station manager of Star FM Cagayan de Oro City, and owner of Fil Savers Advertising and Marketing, located in front of Bantay Bata, ABS Compound, McArthur Highway in Barangay Matina Crossing.

Speaking of Texas - some kind of father/son "pastoral" thing?

Eastland, TX. Case No. 31,691-98, is set for trial 04/23/01 in the 12th judicial district of Angelina County, Lufkin Texas. Defendants in this case are e)United Pentecostal Church International (UPCI) in Saint Louis MO, k)Texas District of the United Pentecostal Church,)United Pentecostal Church of Eastland Texas, n)Bobby Hart and Jonathan Mark Hart. Jonathan Mark Hart was convicted in Eastland, TX, Feb. 1999, on 3 counts of sexual assault of a minor child. The female children were 15 and 16 years of age and members of the Youth Group at Eastland United Pentecostal Church. Jonathan Hart attended Bible College at o)Gateway College of Evangelism and was acting Assistant Pastor at the Eastland United Pentecostal Church. He and his wife were the designated Youth Directors as well. Assaults on these young girls occurred on Church property and on Church related trips supervised by Jonathan Hart. Bobby Hart is the Father of Jonathan Hart and was also the Pastor of the Eastland Church at the time of the assaults. Bobby Hart appointed Jonathan Hart to both leadership positions.

Even the organization was charged in this one! The WHOLE organization. Man, what a thing to be proud of right? "In 30 years im not aware of these things" yeah right. Is this a new historical milestone? Has a whole international organization EVER been charged in criminal court? Islam bows humbly to this achievement.

You sure you want to spar with me some more or can we just say that in both faiths there are bad people who abuse their positions or twist religious teachings to their own gain? Not that im bored with this though. There is LOTS more.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

I do agree with what Jesus said. Thank you for asking. Same chapter -

Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[a] drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

Seems Paul was saying that if you plant something or build something or raise something you can enjoy what you planted or built or raised.

In your case I guess that means if you make a bunch of CD's you can enjoy them freely. That's narcissistic but narcissism is not classified as dangerous so have at it.

Summary: No 10 bucks for you. LOL.......

Wow, do you ever misread! lol. Paul and Jesus were talking about finances and support.

The context shows a minister is not in it to get rich, but will be supported. That is the freely give and yet not taking provisions so as to be supported while ministering. .

Now, you never answered me. Do your clerics get paid for their ministry?

Maybe easier english will help. lol

1 Corinthians 9:13-14 Surely you know that the men who work in the Temple get their food from the Temple and that those who offer the sacrifices on the altar get a share of the sacrifices. (14) In the same way, the Lord has ordered that those who preach the gospel should get their living from it.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Wow, do you ever misread! lol. Paul and Jesus were talking about finances and support.

The context shows a minister is not in it to get rich, but will be supported. That is the freely give and yet not taking provisions so as to be supported while ministering. .

Now, you never answered me. Do your clerics get paid for their ministry?

Maybe easier english will help. lol

1 Corinthians 9:13-14 Surely you know that the men who work in the Temple get their food from the Temple and that those who offer the sacrifices on the altar get a share of the sacrifices. (14) In the same way, the Lord has ordered that those who preach the gospel should get their living from it.

The internet is not an alter, selling on the internet is not working in the temple, and nowhere does the bible say you are supposed to market Jesus like a cheap trinket.

The official answer to your question.

Hazrat Abud Darda reports that the Holy Prophet (saws) said: "The person who takes wages on Qur'an, Allah will put in his neck a bow of fire."

Buraidah reports that the Prophet (saws) said: "The person who recites the Holy Qur'an for the purpose of eating (livelihood) from others, he will be raised on the Day of Resurrection in a state that his face would be only bone devoid of flesh."

Imam Ahmad, Ishaq and Ibn Abi Shaibah report that that the Messenger of Allah (saws) said: "Read the Holy Qur'an and do not eat through it."

From these narrations the scholars of Hanafi school of thought have declared it impermissible to take wages for acts of worship done in the service of a mosque. The author of Al-Hidayah says: "And the basic rule is that for every worship exclusive to a Muslim, it is not permissible to take wages on it."

In the famous book of Hanafi Fiqh Sharh Al-Wiqayah we read, "The principle is that it is not lawful to take wages on worships and disobedient acts."

It is not permissible to "sell" or "market" teachings or worship. It is permissible for the officers of a Mosque to hire an Imam and pay him from within their own membership to lead daily prayers, deliver Friday sermons, etc.

Hope you see the difference.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

The internet is not an alter, selling on the internet is not working in the temple, and nowhere does the bible say you are supposed to market Jesus like a cheap trinket.

Wow, you say my sincere intentions to write books and sell them are making Jesus a trinket. Wow. That proves to me your heart is way offkey since I know my intentions and Christ does as well.

The official answer to your question.

Hazrat Abud Darda reports that the Holy Prophet (saws) said: "The person who takes wages on Qur'an, Allah will put in his neck a bow of fire."

You never answered me. How do they live? Where does their funding come from?

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Wow, you say my sincere intentions to write books and sell them are making Jesus a trinket. Wow. That proves to me your heart is way offkey since I know my intentions and Christ does as well.


You never answered me. How do they live? Where does their funding come from?

Has nothing to do with "my" heart. The bible says "freely receive, freely give" and allows a minister to partake from the donations of his ministry. This is clear.

I see a difference between this and marketing. It is not you and it is not personal. We had this out a long time ago. I was teasing you earlier about the 10 bucks anyway - this is carrying a two-yr-old discussion we had into this thread.

But you asked and I will answer.

One of my Imams in Houston was a doctor. The speakers at Friday prayer come from various backgrounds. One that I knew was a co-worker of mine, he had a PhD in Materials Engineering and worked in engineering design. He translated, printed, and passed out easily understood Qurans in his free time. We paid for the printing costs, but we did not sell Qurans.

As I said, it is permissible to pay an Imam if needed. It is not preferred. Some further clarification.

Performing the duties of a mufti, a judge, an imam, a khateeb, or a mu'adhin is considered a duty of shari'ah, associated with the Hereafter, which must be rooted in one's volunteering and seeking the reward from Allah.

It is not a worldly employment for profit or attaining income, and thus one cannot apply the principle of identifying a remuneration or compensation for specifically defined duties as one would do in the case of a worldly employment contract.

If one cannot find those who are willing to volunteer to fill these duties without compensation, then it is permissible to arrange a payment for he who will execute these tasks and free himself up for them, since his duties as an imam or judge or mufti or similar functions may occupy his time such that he may not find the opportunity to gain his income through other means.

Note that this payment is appointed for him for the purpose of freeing him up for his duties vis-a-vis shari'ah, and it is NOT a "fee for hire", i.e. NOT a salary compensating for work done.

Thus, the correct case is that he accepts money so that he can be free to make fataawa (for a mufti), NOT that he makes fataawa so that he can make money; likewise, he accepts money so that he can be free to be an imam, NOT that he works as an imam so as to make money, etc.

Both the correct and invalid cases are a means to an end; what makes one correct and the other invalid is what comprises the means and what comprises the end. The accepting of money must be the means, i.e. an instrument, aiding a person to the end, which is to establish and conduct acts of worship and pleasing Allaah, and to free himself up for this.

Acts of worship cannot be the means to the end of achieving an income.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Has nothing to do with "my" heart. The bible says "freely receive, freely give" and allows a minister to partake from the donations of his ministry. This is clear.

I see a difference between this and marketing.

One of my Imams in Houston was a doctor. The speakers at Friday prayer come from various backgrounds. One that I knew was a co-worker of mine, he had a PhD in Materials Engineering and worked in engineering design. He translated, printed, and passed out easily understood Qurans in his free time. We paid for the printing costs, but we did not sell Qurans.

As I said, it is permissible to pay an Imam if needed. It is not preferred. Some further clarification.

Performing the duties of a mufti, a judge, an imam, a khateeb, or a mu'adhin is considered a duty of shari'ah, associated with the Hereafter, which must be rooted in one's volunteering and seeking the reward from Allah.

It is not a worldly employment for profit or attaining income, and thus one cannot apply the principle of identifying a remuneration or compensation for specifically defined duties as one would do in the case of a worldly employment contract.

If one cannot find those who are willing to volunteer to fill these duties without compensation, then it is permissible to arrange a payment for he who will execute these tasks and free himself up for them, since his duties as an imam or judge or mufti or similar functions may occupy his time such that he may not find the opportunity to gain his income through other means.

Note that this payment is appointed for him for the purpose of freeing him up for his duties vis-a-vis shari'ah, and it is NOT a "fee for hire", i.e. NOT a salary compensating for work done.

Thus, the correct case is that he accepts money so that he can be free to make fataawa (for a mufti), NOT that he makes fataawa so that he can make money; likewise, he accepts money so that he can be free to be an imam, NOT that he works as an imam so as to make money, etc.

Both the correct and invalid cases are a means to an end; what makes one correct and the other invalid is what comprises the means and what comprises the end. The accepting of money must be the means, i.e. an instrument, aiding a person to the end, which is to establish and conduct acts of worship and pleasing Allaah, and to free himself up for this.

Acts of worship cannot be the means to the end of achieving an income.

So they DO get paid? Ahhhh.

And you think money is an end for us and not a means as well?

You say it is okay to pay a moslem leader so long as he can be free to minister? But a christian minister cannot?

We're not hirelings. Seems to me like you have a double standard.

If you think we're in it for the money, you are seriously mistaken. I have to work a secular job to survive. The bible clearly teaches that the minister receives support so he can survive. That's what 1 cor 9 is about. Paul abrogated it so people could not charge him. But he said it was his right. If that was not speaking about receiving financial support, as you claim, then how in the world was working in tent making a means of avoiding a foolish charge? Please explain that.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Walks...

Seems Paul was saying that if you plant something or build something or raise something you can enjoy what you planted or built or raised.

Very incorrect.

He says the principle of an ox working a cornfield for his master gives allowance for the ox to eat the food while it works. He spoke of receiving the readers' carnal things after he has given them spiritual things. What do you think the carnal things are? lol. Finances.

1 Corinthians 9:13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
1 Corinthians 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

Verse 13 says the priests of the temple live from the offerings people bring to the temple that is the people's sacrifice to God. People bring offerings today to church. It keeps the church operating since the church needs finances. PART Of those finances is given to the ministers of the gospels. That's exactly what Paul said. It is so the ministry can spend time in praying and studying the word.

How does that apply to your interpretation?

Galatians 6:6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.

What do you think communicate means?

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by mfblume

So they DO get paid? Ahhhh.

And you think money is an end for us and not a means as well?

You say it is okay to pay a moslem leader so long as he can be free to minister? But a christian minister cannot?

We're not hirelings. Seems to me like you have a double standard.

If you think we're in it for the money, you are seriously mistaken. I have to work a secular job to survive. The bible clearly teaches that the minister receives support so he can survive. That's what 1 cor 9 is about. Paul abrogated it so people could not charge him. But he said it was his right. If that was not speaking about receiving financial support, as you claim, then how in the world was working in tent making a means of avoiding a foolish charge? Please explain that.

Ours did not get paid in Houston. They had other jobs and do not need the money. I know the Imam who gave the Friday prayers here a couple of days ago. He is one of our plant operators. He doesn't get paid to lead Friday prayer. I am not used to that, always assumed they were like preachers and lived off of it but they are not. The Imams I have seen always have other jobs. Though it is currently permissible to hire an Imam it is a technical violation of early Islamic law, as shared a couple posts back.