Okay, you have absolutely proven my point. You believe that anything you believe is factual to you. In other words, you seem to be saying that your belief is your reality. I think that is a lie. You can't believe something into being or people would believe their loved ones healthy and back to life all the time. But reality is harsh and hard and doesn't work that way.
What you are espousing is truly scary. You are apparently saying that fact has no basis, reality has no basis. Whatever you believe is FACT. I think that is a dangerous belief that has no basis in reality. Sad.
You are still misunderstanding me.
I'm not talking about "believing something into being". For me, there is no question. There is a one true God and there is an afterlife. Period. People can try to tell me otherwise, they can say "you don't know that", but it won't change anything unless I choose to change my mind.
I have made my choice about the afterlife, for example, based on what I personally believe to be fact. Facts can come from books, from experiments, from personal experiences such as the "harsh reality" that you mentioned, from the experiences of others, or simply by faith, faith in God, faith in the experiences of others.
How do you know gravity is a fact? You can't see it. Isn't it because you experience it and others have experienced it and some scientists have documented the experiences and call it a law? What is the basis for your personal belief in gravity? Experiences? Books? If someone tells you that gravity is not real will that change your mind and cause the law of gravity to no longer be a "fact" for you?
You seem to be saying that experiences do not establish a BASIS for belief, a basis for something KNOWN to be true, but yet they do. If you say they don't, you contradict yourself.
__________________
"The only thing worse than murder in the desert is to know where the water is and not tell it!"
You seem to be saying that experiences do not establish a BASIS for belief, a basis for something KNOWN to be true, but yet they do. If you say they don't, you contradict yourself.
No, experiences DO establish a basis for belief. That is why gravity was a philosophy before it was tested. Then it was tested. The theory of gravity has the same test results over and over. So it is a testable and repeatable hypothesis. This is not true with the belief in heaven. There is no testable hypothesis in the same way, where a group can test the results over and over. That is why it is a belief.
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
You make some really good points, but still, some things are provable. The afterlife is not one of them. That's what NFS is trying to say.
The afterlife is not DISPROVABLE and as for it being provable, thats a matter of opinion and once again, its up to individual choice.
My problem with this thread is being told that I "can't" answer a question when I most certainly can. I could be wrong but I can answer. You may not accept my answer and thats your choice.
Anyone that truly believes in the afterlife is going to share those beliefs. Thats just a given.
__________________
"The only thing worse than murder in the desert is to know where the water is and not tell it!"
The afterlife is not DISPROVABLE and as for it being provable, thats a matter of opinion and once again, its up to individual choice.
Okay, first of all, I believe there is a heaven and an afterlife. But! You can't disprove a lot of things. For example, if I told you there was a giant blue elephant in your living room, you could say "No there isn't, I don't see one", and I could say it's invisible. And you could say "But I can't feel it" and I could say "it's a ghost" etc. The bottom line is you can't disprove there is a giant blue elephant in your living room and if I were manipulative and you were easily swayed, I could get you to tip-toe when it's "sleeping" and not make noise for fear you would wake it, etc. This is the scary part about things that are not provable. We need to take care that we do not allow people to manipulate us with things that are not provable just because they may be in a position of authority or a position to sway us.
Quote:
My problem with this thread is being told that I "can't" answer a question when I most certainly can. I could be wrong but I can answer. You may not accept my answer and thats your choice.
I agree, you can certainly answer whatever you want and I won't say you can't say it.
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
I'm not talking about "believing something into being". For me, there is no question. There is a one true God and there is an afterlife. Period. People can try to tell me otherwise, they can say "you don't know that", but it won't change anything unless I choose to change my mind.
I have made my choice about the afterlife, for example, based on what I personally believe to be fact. Facts can come from books, from experiments, from personal experiences such as the "harsh reality" that you mentioned, from the experiences of others, or simply by faith, faith in God, faith in the experiences of others.
How do you know gravity is a fact? You can't see it. Isn't it because you experience it and others have experienced it and some scientists have documented the experiences and call it a law? What is the basis for your personal belief in gravity? Experiences? Books? If someone tells you that gravity is not real will that change your mind and cause the law of gravity to no longer be a "fact" for you?
You seem to be saying that experiences do not establish a BASIS for belief, a basis for something KNOWN to be true, but yet they do. If you say they don't, you contradict yourself.
Gravity is not a viable comparison. Gravity can be measured and proven. And, as you even stated, Gravity has been called, "Law", and applies the same to all who live on Earth.
On the other hand, the Afterlife cannot be measured or proven. This allows the believer to presume, make up, or embellish the Afterlife to fit their own idea or Religion, because there is no Law to confine the results.
Then you have Preachers/People who tell others what will happen to them when they die, even though there is no Law to establish the reality of who really goes where. In other words, it becomes a "Crapshoot", with no definitive answer, and with no definitive truth.
In the end, it's all about opinions, not the actual experience.
Gravity is not a viable comparison. Gravity can be measured and proven. And, as you even stated, Gravity has been called, "Law", and applies the same to all who live on Earth.
On the other hand, the Afterlife cannot be measured or proven. This allows the believer to presume, make up, or embellish the Afterlife to fit their own idea or Religion, because there is no Law to confine the results.
Then you have Preachers/People who tell others what will happen to them when they die, even though there is no Law to establish the reality of who really goes where. In other words, it becomes a "Crapshoot", with no definitive answer, and with no definitive truth.
In the end, it's all about opinions, not the actual experience.
NSF,
There is a blue elephant in your living room.
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
My very first reaction; I saw this blue elephant in my mind, clear as day, but it was my OWN blue elephant (size/type/where in my living room)!
To me, this is what happens with the Afterlife; we can go there, no problem in our minds, but it is our OWN Afterlife, not another persons or G-d's.
The imagination is truly powerful, but it must be harnessed with the facts, not another persons idea of what something is via their upbringing and Religious culture.
My very first reaction; I saw this blue elephant in my mind, clear as day, but it was my OWN blue elephant (size/type/where in my living room)!
To me, this is what happens with the Afterlife; we can go there, no problem in our minds, but it is our OWN Afterlife, not another persons or G-d's.
The imagination is truly powerful, but it must be harnessed with the facts, not another persons idea of what something is via their upbringing and Religious culture.
You must be quiet at 5:00 PM to 3 AM for this is when the elephant sleeps.
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
Linear Mode
