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  #1  
Old 10-19-2013, 11:13 AM
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Truthseeker Truthseeker is offline
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Grace and justification

I have been studying some on grace and justification, it was been one of the most challenging things I have done, even more then bible prophecy. The more I study it the more I see why so many, from my experience, walk in condemnation never able to get over the hump so to speak.

Looking over my past 24 years or so in church I have not heard one sermon or teaching on justification by faith.

I recently asked several friends from church when one is righteous before God, only one gave the right answer. I see more and more the lack in what is taught regarding salvation and the problems that causes.

Still putting the pieces together on the subject but It really has caused me to have more confidence in prayer and what can happen through faith.
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Today pull up the little weeds,
The sinful thoughts subdue,
Or they will take the reins themselves
And someday master you. --Anon.


The most deadly sins do not leap upon us, they creep up on us.
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  #2  
Old 10-19-2013, 12:45 PM
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Lafon Lafon is offline
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Re: Grace and justification

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
I have been studying some on grace and justification, it was been one of the most challenging things I have done, even more then bible prophecy. The more I study it the more I see why so many, from my experience, walk in condemnation never able to get over the hump so to speak.

Looking over my past 24 years or so in church I have not heard one sermon or teaching on justification by faith.

I recently asked several friends from church when one is righteous before God, only one gave the right answer. I see more and more the lack in what is taught regarding salvation and the problems that causes.

Still putting the pieces together on the subject but It really has caused me to have more confidence in prayer and what can happen through faith.
Is it that only one gave the right answer OR only one gave the answer which agrees with your understanding of the matter? Are you the only one with the right answer? If so, won't you please publish it so the rest can know it?

Its not that I am attempting to belittle you because of your statement, rather I am troubled with the perception it gives, as if only you have the "right" answer. Please forgive me if my remarks offend you, but these are the thoughts which came to mind as I read your comments.
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  #3  
Old 10-19-2013, 01:07 PM
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Truthseeker Truthseeker is offline
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Re: Grace and justification

I am not easily offended. The right answer is righteousness is a gift of God to us. We made righteous by the blood.
__________________
Today pull up the little weeds,
The sinful thoughts subdue,
Or they will take the reins themselves
And someday master you. --Anon.


The most deadly sins do not leap upon us, they creep up on us.
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  #4  
Old 10-19-2013, 03:18 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Grace and justification

Righteousness is certainly misunderstood.

Its like this:

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; Rom. 3:21-25

The area causing the most problem for people is verse 25.

The righteousness Paul is writing about is simply this.

God will forgive our past sins.

Men have so distorted this they are thinking all their future sins will simply be forgiven. Paul was writing to people showing them Gods mercy and grace as it related to their past life of sin.

Same story in Ephesians.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph. 2:8-9

Lets put it this way. A sinner seeking salvation CANNOT bring a list of good deeds and present them before God and demand they be saved on that basis. They cannot plead obedience to Moses law or any self goodness. They must come Gods way, which is through the sacrifice of Christ.

In Romans 3:25 and Ephesians 2:8-9 Paul in both cases is directing his teaching concerning our INITIAL SALVATION.

Its a lot more simple than what todays scholars are trying to make it. They in fact use Ephesians 2:8-9 to promote the idea a new creation Christian then need do nothing in the way of obedience to enter the Kingdom.

That is the great danger. They have a wrong concept of grace and imputed righteousness. It was never meant by Jesus to be a continual covering for sin where one will find FINAL SALVATION apart from his works.
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  #5  
Old 10-19-2013, 03:47 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: Grace and justification

One is justified by faith when he is born again.
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  #6  
Old 10-19-2013, 04:08 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Grace and justification

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
I have been studying some on grace and justification, it was been one of the most challenging things I have done, even more then bible prophecy. The more I study it the more I see why so many, from my experience, walk in condemnation never able to get over the hump so to speak.

Looking over my past 24 years or so in church I have not heard one sermon or teaching on justification by faith.

I recently asked several friends from church when one is righteous before God, only one gave the right answer. I see more and more the lack in what is taught regarding salvation and the problems that causes.

Still putting the pieces together on the subject but It really has caused me to have more confidence in prayer and what can happen through faith.
I hear Justification often in my church. It's always from the Pastor.
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #7  
Old 10-19-2013, 04:09 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Grace and justification

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
I have been studying some on grace and justification, it was been one of the most challenging things I have done, even more then bible prophecy. The more I study it the more I see why so many, from my experience, walk in condemnation never able to get over the hump so to speak.

Looking over my past 24 years or so in church I have not heard one sermon or teaching on justification by faith.

I recently asked several friends from church when one is righteous before God, only one gave the right answer. I see more and more the lack in what is taught regarding salvation and the problems that causes.

Still putting the pieces together on the subject but It really has caused me to have more confidence in prayer and what can happen through faith.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafon View Post
Is it that only one gave the right answer OR only one gave the answer which agrees with your understanding of the matter? Are you the only one with the right answer? If so, won't you please publish it so the rest can know it?

Its not that I am attempting to belittle you because of your statement, rather I am troubled with the perception it gives, as if only you have the "right" answer. Please forgive me if my remarks offend you, but these are the thoughts which came to mind as I read your comments.
I once asked a long time Pentecostal if they knew what Justification was and they said NO.
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #8  
Old 10-19-2013, 05:29 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Grace and justification

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Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
One is justified by faith when he is born again.
Yes! Its not that hard. When forgiveness of sins and being born again is preached justification is being preached.
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  #9  
Old 10-19-2013, 06:50 PM
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Truthseeker Truthseeker is offline
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Re: Grace and justification

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Yes! Its not that hard. When forgiveness of sins and being born again is preached justification is being preached.
Many do not know or been told that. To be in Christ is to be justified.
__________________
Today pull up the little weeds,
The sinful thoughts subdue,
Or they will take the reins themselves
And someday master you. --Anon.


The most deadly sins do not leap upon us, they creep up on us.

Last edited by Truthseeker; 10-19-2013 at 08:37 PM.
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  #10  
Old 10-19-2013, 08:32 PM
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navygoat1998 navygoat1998 is offline
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Re: Grace and justification

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
Many to not know or been told that. To be in Christy is to be justified.
My wife would not like my hanging out with Christy
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Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4)

Scripture is its own interpreter. Nothing can cut a diamond but a diamond. Nothing can interpret Scripture but Scripture" Thomas Watson.
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