Saved vs striving to be saved??

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Aquila

If you don't believe we need to grow in personal sanctification... well.. that's on you. lol

Sanctification deals with the carnal nature of man it deals with a man being made holy it is a change of nature. Whereas before sanctification the spirit and the carnal man were at war after sanctification a change happens to the very basic make up of man in that the old man the carnal nature is removed/destroyed and to say that this is done by growth makes as much as to say that a cantaloupe plant could eventually grow from being a cantaloupe plant in too being a watermelon plant. Growth does not change things they remain the same only bigger but God reaching in and pulling the old out and putting the new in makes a huge change. Then yes we are to grow in grace but the act of sanctification has already taken place.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Luke

Sanctification deals with the carnal nature of man it deals with a man being made holy it is a change of nature. Whereas before sanctification the spirit and the carnal man were at war after sanctification a change happens to the very basic make up of man in that the old man the carnal nature is removed/destroyed and to say that this is done by growth makes as much as to say that a cantaloupe plant could eventually grow from being a cantaloupe plant in too being a watermelon plant. Growth does not change things they remain the same only bigger but God reaching in and pulling the old out and putting the new in makes a huge change. Then yes we are to grow in grace but the act of sanctification has already taken place.

We must cleanse ourselves from what is dishonorable:

2 Timothy 2:21 ESV
Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from what is dishonorable, he will be a vessel for honorable use, set apart as holy, useful to the master of the house, ready for every good work.

1 Thessalonians 4:3 ESV
For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality;

2 Peter 1:2-4 ESV
May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord. His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.

Galatians 5:19-21 ESV
Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Thessalonians 4:3-5 ESV
For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God;

1 John 1:9 ESV
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

2 Peter 3:18 ESV
But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

John 17:19 ESV
And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth.

Ephesians 4:13 ESV
Until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,

1 John 3:3 ESV
And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.

Romans 12:1 ESV
I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.

... and I could go on and on and on. My understanding is that we are "sanctified" the moment we are born again... but we are also to continue in that sanctification and grow into the stature of the fulness of Jesus. Sanctification.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Luke

That makes no sense once I have been set apart and made holy (sanctified) as long as I stay sanctified why is there any need for me to be set apart again and again? Is God simply repeating His previously completed work because He is bored and has nothing else to do?

different aspects of what people consider sanctification. Quit thinking in a reformed/protestant mentality on everything. Many consider justification and sanctification the same thing. While you may have put a distinction to them many historically never did. You are constantly being set apart by your response to his Word. His Word separates you from all. If you want being considered is child as Sanctified or positionally being set apart that is fine but even then you are only his child if you continue to do so which is again based on your response to his Word.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

different aspects of what people consider sanctification. Quit thinking in a reformed/protestant mentality on everything. Many consider justification and sanctification the same thing. While you may have put a distinction to them many historically never did. You are constantly being set apart by your response to his Word. His Word separates you from all. If you want being considered is child as Sanctified or positionally being set apart that is fine but even then you are only his child if you continue to do so which is again based on your response to his Word.

Weather or not many in history put a difference between justification and sanctification really does not matter because all through the bible God puts a differnce between the two in very clear ways.

Also it is not that we are constantky being set apart rather we at sanctification we are set apart and then from there we remain set apart.

[Aquila]

Listed below is a brief explanation of my interpretation of the Bible's doctrine of salvation and it's many aspects (Redemption):

1.) Predestination/Election:
I understand that there are various points of view on Predestination and Election. I’ll share the most basic here as a general rule. Predestination is predicated upon God’s foreknowledge of who will persevere in their faith until the end. Therefore, by foreknowledge, God ordained their salvation to be in Christ Jesus. These are the individuals that God has specifically chosen from eternity past to be found in Christ (Election). Therefore Predestination and Election are closely related.

2.) Atonement:
Atonement is solely the act of Christ to fulfill the Law on behalf of the Elect and thereby tear down the separation between man and God. Now, with regards to the Elect, the Law has been perfectly fulfilled. All sins and violations of the Law (past, present, and future) have adequately been paid for through Christ’s sinless life, his sacrificial death upon the cross, and his resurrection.

3.) Propitiation:
This is solely the act of Christ wherein he took upon himself the entirety of the very wrath and judgment of God that was rightfully the Elect’s. In this, he who knew no sin became sin for the very Elect. This act propitiated for the entirety of sins (past, present, and future) committed by the Elect.

4.) The Gospel Call:
When the Elect in Christ hear the Gospel for the first time a sovereign act of God begins through God’s prevenient grace. As the Elect hears the Gospel they are not only intellectually drawn to the things of God, but there is an inner drawing through the Spirit of God. This call may be resisted for a period of time. Some believe that it can be resisted indefinitely; others believe it is irresistible on behalf of the elect. In time the Elect sinner’s will is broken by the Holy Spirit through the power of the Gospel.

5.) Conversion:
Through a continuing act of God’s prevenient grace, the Elect sinner not only hears the call of God through the Gospel both outwardly and inwardly, but also comes to faith in Christ and the preached Word. This brings conviction and sorrow for sin that leads to repentance. When one repents they desire to obey and the first commandment given to any convert is that they be water baptized. The repentant Elect believer is then convicted to obey and be water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. In response to the Elect believer’s faith, God then counts them sinless (Justification).

6.) Justification:
Justification is the right legal standing with God through Christ. Christ became sin on the cross that the Elect believer might become the very righteousness of God in God’s sight. The Elect believer stands before God as though they had never sinned. It is this legal standing that allows an Elect believer to receive the Holy Ghost. It is this legal standing with God that allows an Elect believer to approach God in confession and repentance after having sinned. It is also this legal standing with God that justifies God in continually convicting and drawing the Elect believer without swift and immediate condemnation. It is this legal standing with God that justifies the believer to receive all blessings and favor from God, though they be undeserved.

7.) Regeneration:
Regeneration is the result of receiving the Holy Spirit. In this, the Elect believer’s dead and lifeless spirit is united with God through the Holy Spirit. Through this union of spirit the Elect believer partakes in the divine nature and now the very divine life and essence of God flows through the Elect believer’s spirit making the Elect believer one with God through Christ Jesus by the Spirit. Regeneration is living through the Spirit.

8.) Adoption:
Adoption is essentially the Elect believer’s status before God as a son or daughter. Through union with the indwelling Holy Spirit the Elect believer is a partaker of God’s own divine nature. Thus the Elect believer now stands as a “son of God” (or “daughter of God”). This allows free flow access to God as a child of God. Also, all spiritual gifts are granted through one’s status as an adopted son or daughter of God. As Christ was the Son of God, so too are we the “sons of God” through Christ Jesus, our Elder Brother.

9.) Sanctification:
Sanctification is the Elect believer’s progression into "Christlikeness". Through the Elect believer’s union with God by the indwelling Spirit, the Elect believer now has a new sinless nature with regards to their spirit. However, the flesh (including the still carnal mind) has yet to be renewed, and therefore the flesh and the mind are still subject to misconceptions, habits, and sinful impulses. The Elect believer will feel deep conviction, sorrow, and regret for sin. This conviction is evidence of a new indwelling nature. To have peace in Christ the Elect believer must discipline the flesh and not cater to its carnal desires. In addition, the Elect believer must undergo the renewing of their mind through the washing of the Word of God. This includes hearing sound biblical teaching, study, prayer, and meditation. Sanctification is not found through the adhering to rules and regulations of any church or organization. Sanctification is the total surrender of one’s self to being conformed into the image and likeness of Jesus Christ Himself. The Elect believer must take care not to allow sin to reign in their lives; else they will reap the consequences of their sin in life. Sanctification is becoming like Christ. The believer’s entire focus is upon keeping the law of Christ: Love God. Love others. Where regeneration is living through the Spirit, Sanctification is walking in the Spirit.

10.) Perseverance:
Perseverance is the Elect believer’s overcoming. The moment one is born again, their life isn’t always perfect. Sinful circumstances must be addressed as a believer grows in sanctification. Also, the born again believer will experience setbacks, failures, mistakes, and even struggle with the sinful nature of their flesh. The Elect believer never truly gives up (and God sees this through foreknowledge). They may often backslide or struggle with sin, and even feel a sense of utter defeat. But the Elect believer overcomes these things by maintaining faith, confessing and repenting of sin. Thereby the Elect believer experiences the love, presence, grace, acceptance, and peace of God in Christ Jesus. Ultimately the Elect believer will persevere in the faith and be conformed into the image and likeness of Jesus.

11.) Death:
Physical death is the end of physical life on earth. This is brought about on account of sin. The Elect believer stands in Christ alone and departs this world to be spiritually present with the Lord. Upon shedding the fallen flesh and it's effects on the mind, the Elect believer experiences the fulfillment of their longings... absolute freedom from the sinful nature. In this state they wait and serve as God desires until their bodily resurrection.

12.) Glorification:
When Christ returns the dead in Christ shall rise first, and then we which are alive and remain shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye. This mortality will put on immortality and we will meet the Lord in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Here, our Redemption is complete. All Elect believers will have new resurrected and glorified bodies without a sin nature. The Elect believer’s transformation into the image and likeness of Jesus will be complete, and for ever more we shall be like Jesus Himself.

I believe that understanding and experiencing these realities is essential for a healthy and balanced Christian life.

May God bless and keep you my brethren.

Chris,

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Luke

Weather or not many in history put a difference between justification and sanctification really does not matter because all through the bible God puts a differnce between the two in very clear ways.

Also it is not that we are constantky being set apart rather we at sanctification we are set apart and then from there we remain set apart.

No... you can make certain aspects justification and sanctification and put them in those categories whether they are or not.

Also see what you did above. You made "then from there we remain set apart." it is ambigious on what that means or entails. You make the point that initial salvation is "sanctification" or being set apart. Which nobody disagrees with. However you have not explained why walking is not continued sanctification. Is it not? Is our walk not a continous process of being set apart? He set us apart for his will by his Word. His will is daily to be sought. To me sanctification is a continual aspect. I am set apart because I am positionally following his will.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

No... you can make certain aspects justification and sanctification and put them in those categories whether they are or not.

Also see what you did above. You made "then from there we remain set apart." it is ambigious on what that means or entails. You make the point that initial salvation is "sanctification" or being set apart. Which nobody disagrees with. However you have not explained why walking is not continued sanctification. Is it not? Is our walk not a continous process of being set apart? He set us apart for his will by his Word. His will is daily to be sought. To me sanctification is a continual aspect. I am set apart because I am positionally following his will.

No I never said that salvation and sanctification is the same experience nor that the TWO take place at the same time. A person gets sanctified and then he ramains sanctified.