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If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
I lifted this quote from one of the gay marriage threads. Removed author's name since I'm taking this a different direction than subject he was addressing..
Oh? God << tolerated >> these forms of marriage? In the above examples, several forms were not only tolerated, but PRESCRIBED by Yahweh God and His supposed mouthpiece, Moses.
1.Forced Marriage To Your Own Rapist, (hey rapist, pay the dad 50 shekels, and she's yours!)
2.Forced Marriage to the soldiers who conquered your people, (as long as girl is a virgin, so imagine the post-battle examinations.)
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 If a man finds a young woman who is a virgin who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her, and they are found out, then the man who lay with her shall give to the young woman's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife because he has humbled her; he shall not be permitted to divorce her all his days.
Numbers 31:17-18
Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man intimately. 18 But keep alive for yourselves all the young girls who have not known a man intimately.
Deut 21:10-12
When you go out to war against your enemies, and the Lord your God delivers them into your hand, and you take them captive, 11 and you see among the captives a beautiful woman, and desire her and would take her for your wife, 12 then you shall bring her home to your house, and she shall shave her head and trim her nails
I well realize how believers are able to mine cultural history's "proper context" in order to avoid their personal cognitive dissonance and to square it with the belief that God has to remain all-knowing, all-loving, all-powerful, always-good, and all that at the same time. Indeed, the context above is a Bronze Age culture that is never too concerned with the human rights of non-Hebrews, except when they were forced to be concerned due to the firepower of said enemies. Fact remains that in any other time where Yahweh God wanted to elevate, educate, or change cultural behavior in any other area of Jewish life, He was WELL able to get the point across, such as in killing the silly man who reached out to steady that teetering ark of the covenant, or that rascally rebel who picked up sticks on a Sabbath (death), or the youths who made fun of a prophet's bald head (42 bear-mauled youths.) Yes, I cherry-picked those examples, but why not--there's a whole orchard full to pick from.
Regarding Forced Marriage to One's Own Rapist, and the post battle Round-Up-The-Cuties-Warrior-Benefit, some human behaviors have no morally defensible context, at least if taught as proper habit, a social norm, or Divinely Prescribed statute. In this sense, most readers of Timmy Talk probably possess a moral compass superior to their own Yahweh God.
Anyhow, if gay marriage is so obnoxious, then it will be enjoying some very good past company with several of the above forms of marriage that were once prescribed by the Yahweh God.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Does anyone here think that we in the US have laws against murder because the Bible tells us it's a sin?
Timmy, I recall while in Bible College (UPC,) it was common to hear something such as, "Our country is founded upon Judeo-Christian principles and values." Today, although I don't disagree with that, I do wonder exactly what is meant by "founded upon." We should also include "founded upon" Roman/Greco values, and especially founded upon the huge attitude adjustment provided by the Age of Enlightenment, where faith, tradition, and authority were all put under the scrutiny and judgment of natural reason. The Declaration of course mentions a god, but the document having the real legal teeth--The Constitution--mentions God nowhere.
For one possible example of our "Judeo-Christian heritage", let's take the 10 commandments, and consider a question about each one: "Does our government/legal system legislate, enforce laws concerning this commandment? Rate each one from 0 to 100. "0" means US law does not address adherence to the commandment (or some similar restatement of the commandment) and 100 would mean yes, it's defacto law in USA. I'll give my ratings, any Timmy Talk reader feel free to give yours.
1. Thou shall have no other Gods before me.
score: 0
2. No graven images, whether of heaven above, or of earth below.
score: 0
3. Don't take God's name in vain.
score: 0
4. No work on the Sabbath
score: 0
5. Honor your father and mother.
score: 0
6. Shalt not murder
score: 100. A hit!
7. Shalt not commit adultery.
score: 20, being generous. Some states have adultery laws on the books, but essentially not enforced--mostly used for divorce justification. Military law can prosecute for adultery among its members, theoretically. Or, you can fess up and quit first. But if you are, say, Commander in Chief of the military, it's still no big deal (Clinton.)
8. Shalt not steal.
score: 100. Another hit, unless of course you are Congress or upper level bankers, then it's legal.
9. Shalt not lie.
score: 20. It's illegal to lie in court, on affadavits, to break contracts, etc, etc. But in general, it's legal to lie like a rug. (Ask some televangelists.)
10. Don't covet neighbor's wife or property.
score: 0
Grand score; 240 out of possible 1000. (24%.) I wonder if Egyptian society under Moses' former employer Pharoah would have scored higher or lower?. My guess-- about the same!
Might give 4 a 0.1 or so, as there are still some laws on the books about certain businesses being open on Sundays. In TX and maybe some others, liquor stores, e.g. And grocery stores can't sell alcohol on Sundays until noon, I think.
OK, make that 0.01. It wasn't very long ago that there were more "blue laws" like that. Mostly gone, now.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Might give 4 a 0.1 or so, as there are still some laws on the books about certain businesses being open on Sundays. In TX and maybe some others, liquor stores, e.g. And grocery stores can't sell alcohol on Sundays until noon, I think
Ya, I thought about blue laws, but didn't see connection with 10 commandments. Could be wrong there. I figure blue laws to be more practical than reverent--they keep folks and clergy from going to church unnecessarily "happy."
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