Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie
I disagree. We have many in our church like this... going to guess maybe 20%.
Standards are not salvific in nature, so it would be a mistake to break fellowship due to a different conclusion in the same matters.
Just reread what you wrote... "did not at all believe"... that is subjective I suppose. Pretty much everyone believes in some I think.
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To clarify, I'm talking about people who are members, which usually requires some sort of agreement with the church and leadership. If you are a member, I believe you have an obligation to support and submit to the local church leadership. If you aren't a member, you probably haven't reached the point where you're ready to commit to that and all it entails. In many cases, other than the occasional sermon, people who haven't committed to or inquired about membership aren't even aware of the full list of requirements, so their non-compliance is irrelevant. We have people who attend our church who aren't members and who aren't in compliance with that particular laundry list--no one has a problem with them and I don't believe they have bad intentions or that they're wrong. If, however, they heard the pastor clearly preach against something and then started talking to other people in the church about their disagreement with that teaching or made a SHOW of going against the pastor's teachings, that would be wrong.
IF you agree to the stipulations of membership and then go against those same stipulations in practice or by voicing dissent, that is breaking a commitment and causing discord and IMO, that's wrong. I don't see how a Christian, in good conscience, could do that--even if you are convinced the pastor is wrong about his teachings. Old cliche but still true: two wrongs don't make a right.
I do believe that the pastor and local church leadership have inherent authority over the congregation, so of course that colors my opinions. It's nice when you have a pastor who doesn't abuse that authority, but a pastor overstepping reasonable bounds isn't just cause for a saint to revolt and rebel. At some point the integrity of the saint is called into question. There's only so far you can go to resolve a difference, and at some point either the pastor's peers or superiors have to give correction or you have to move on. Staying and trying to cause an uprising is a wrong and possibly dangerous approach. IOW, a lack of integrity on the part of leadership doesn't excuse a lack of integrity on the part of a saint. No one should use the words or actions of a church leader to excuse their own rebellious, divisive or sinful behavior. Keep your integrity about you and if an impasse is reached, move on.
Although the relationships are obviously a different dynamic from church leadership/saint, I feel the same way about the husband/wife relationship. Even if my husband is 100% wrong about something, it doesn't give me the right to be mean, ugly, disrespectful, rude or to incite my children or family against him. We can talk
about our disagreement and try to compromise or I can try to persuade him to see things my way, but if I get out of line in response to him being wrong, I've lost track of my own integrity.
I don't think churches should be in the habit of kicking every person out who breaks a rule or can't agree, nor do I think saints should go running out the door everytime a pastor preaches something they don't like. However, from the saint's perspective, at some point it seems like your personal integrity would be damaged by continued non-compliance with the rules and especially by voicing dissent to others in the assembly.
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