Your Greatest Need

[Amanah]

I have to admit that I'm amazed at the controversy the original post generated.
People are not content unless they are scaring the hell out of you.
I'm much more drawn to the love and comfort of God then to hell and damnation.

I'm a three stepper . . . attending a UPC church . . . I've seen the presence of God woo people to the altar and while people begin to worship God while feeling the love of God, God fills them with the HG. Hell fire and brimstone preaching not required.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Those are conditions are they not? What if we DONT love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength? What if we DONT love our neighbor as ourself?

Will UNCONDITIONAL LOVE still save us?

A far cry from trying to revisit the law and obey all 600+ commandments plus all of the other ones religion has added to it. If you love Him, His grace is sufficient.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

The unconditional love doctrine is pure heresy.

Is this unconditional?

Luke 14:25-27

14:25 Now great multitudes were going with him. He turned and said to them, 14:26 “If anyone comes to me, and doesn’t disregard his own father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he can’t be my disciple. 14:27 Whoever doesn’t bear his own cross, and come after me, can’t be my disciple.

Sounds like its conditioned on taking up the cross and following him.

Sounds like its conditioned on disregarding all others.

Believe me this is just the beginning.

Oh I believe you. Legalism knows no bounds...

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins

Our greatest desire, or want may be acceptance and/or love... but you said it was our greatest NEED. Words are important... and I think you were very loose there with that one. Our greatest NEED is RIGHTEOUSNESS. All the love in the world wont' do you any good if you aren't RIGHTEOUS before God having been washed in the blood of Jesus.

There will be people that Jesus, the church, and others loved.... heaped praise upon... encouraged... that will still be in Hell... there are children there in hell today of parents that gave them tons of chances, bailed them from jail, forgave them over and over, prayed for them, interceded for them, told them they could make it and encouraged them... that the Holy Ghost pulled on the heartstrings of... that God even wrapped Himself in flesh to give Himself for... that God Himself desired they would never perish and he offered them love.... but they still went to Hell.

No, this is some dangerous stuff your touting here. If you called it our greatest DESIRE... I'd have no issue with you... none at all. But you said it's our GREATEST NEED... and friend... I don't need love as much as I need RIGHTEOUSNESS. I need to be saved more than I need someone giving me kuddos and encouragement. My greatest need has more to do with eternity than my self esteem and self concept.

The Book says that God is love. The Book says that Jesus is the righteousness of God. So it appears that when you get God/Jesus you simultaneously get love/righteousness.

So I would say my greatest NEED is Jesus...

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Amanah

I have to admit that I'm amazed at the controversy the original post generated.
People are not content unless they are scaring the hell out of you.
I'm much more drawn to the love and comfort of God then to hell and damnation.

I'm a three stepper . . . attending a UPC church . . . I've seen the presence of God woo people to the altar and while people begin to worship God while feeling the love of God, God fills them with the HG. Hell fire and brimstone preaching not required.

It never ceases to amaze me how legalists just can't accept the pure message of the cross and grace. It can't be that easy. It's too good to be true. Surely theres more I have to do. Of course one must believe, repent of sins, place faith and trust in the work of Jesus on the cross. God so loved the WORLD---everybody. People may not accept His love and His gracious work on the cross for us and will forfeit the opportunity to be forgiven and saved, but nevertheless Jesus love us.

[Bella1]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

The other day at our daughter’s soccer game, one of her teammates, a rather timid player whose game lacks confidence, scored her first goal of the season. The cheers from the fans went up as always when any of the girls does something special. But the enthusiasm behind our applause and praise seemed extra hearty knowing the boost of assurance this would give her. The smile on her face, the gleam in her eye, her body language, all underscored the sense of joy and satisfaction that one experiences when we’re being approved and affirmed by others.

We want to be accepted. We want to gain the approval of others. We want people to see us as having value and worth. We hunger for praise, pats on the back, compliments and commendations. Deep down inside we have a need to be accepted. Accepted for who we are. Accepted as we are. Accepted in spite of what we are or what we’ve done. Accepted in spite of what aren’t and what we haven’t done.

There is an inborn sense in all of us that we lack significance. We are but small creatures in this vast universe. Most of us are unknown to the world. Most of us will never be known by a vast majority of humanity. Very very few if us will go down in the history books. Some people are driven to rise above the masses to do things that are noteworthy, that will be recognized by others for generations to come. Some people are motivated to forge significance for themselves and to leave a lasting legacy that won’t be soon forgotten. But underneath it all there’s still the awareness that most of what we do doesn’t change the fact that there is something wrong with us, something dysfunctional, something lacking regardless of what we do.

We watch with sadness as people who have achieved the heights of fame and fortune self destruct using drugs, or alcohol, commit suicide or ruin their reputations beyond repair. With more money than any of us will ever see, with name recognition that none of us will ever know, with accomplishments that most of us won’t even come close to, we scratch our heads in bewilderment as to how these folks could feel so worthless that they would do such things to themselves. It’s because the one thing we are all longing for, searching for, hoping for cannot be found in wealth, popularity or human achievement...

In Timothy Keller’s book, “King’s Cross”, Keller quotes theologian William Vanstone’s book, “The Phenomenology of Love” in which he declares, “…we need to be loved like we need air and water. We can’t live without love. That means there’s a certain mercenary quality to our relationships. We look for people whose love will really affirm us. We invest our love only where we know we will get a good return. Of course when we do that, our love is conditional and non-vulnerable, because we’re not loving the person simply for himself or herself; we’re loving the person partly for the love we’re getting.”

Keller goes on to say, “Nobody can give anyone else the kind or amount of love they’re starved for. In the end we’re all alike, groping for true love and incapable of fully giving it.” I think this is fundamentally why there’s so much pain and loneliness in the world. Sure there are those who find measures of love and acceptance in marriage and relationships, but underlying it all we know that there are limits to how much humans can love one another. It’s never completely pure, untainted, unconditional love. We love with conditions, even if those conditions are few and aren’t asking much.

Keller then says what I believe to be the solution to our dilemma. “What we need is someone to love us who doesn’t need us at all. Someone who loves us radically, unconditionally, vulnerably. Someone who loves us just for our sake. If we received that kind of love, that would so assure us of our value, it would so fill us up, that maybe we could start to love like that too. Who can give love with no need? Jesus.”

It feels great to score a goal. But within minutes instead of scoring the goal, you’re making a mistake on the field that allows the other team to score. Instead of cheers and praise, you’re feeling the shame of your failure. It’s wonderful to have one say to you, “I love you” and that they embrace you and commit themselves to you and communicate their approval of you in words and deeds. But in time people hurt one another, disappoint one another, fail to live up to the expectations of one another. Some people breakup, divorce, move out and move on in search of, and never discovering, perfect love. Others choose to live with the emptiness and loneliness and embrace the attitude of one songwriter ..who simply declared “Love Stinks!”

This planet is covered with hopeless humanity searching for, hungry for and craving acceptance, approval, affirmation and unconditional love. So many never find it because they think it can be found in another human being. The love and acceptance we yearn for can only be found in Jesus. He doesn’t need us, but He loves and accepts us anyway. His love is perfect. And it’s unconditional. He’ll love you even if you won’t love Him back. And I agree with Keller. The only possibility for human beings to love as He loves is by loving Him and accepting Him and trusting Him. As we accept His grace in our lives, we are changed and transformed into something better and into something brand new. We become like Him. And as we grow up into Christ, we become His mechanism to bring His great love into the people and world around us.

Simply....Thank you. I so needed this today.
Kelli

[Bro. Robbins]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

The Book says that God is love. The Book says that Jesus is the righteousness of God. So it appears that when you get God/Jesus you simultaneously get love/righteousness.

So I would say my greatest NEED is Jesus...

Then you contradict yourself... you earlier said our greatest need was acceptance... love is not acceptance.... you spoke of praise, accalades and encouragement.... love is not always encouragement and accalades and "atta boys".....

The fact is, that you used your words very loosely, and should have never said Our Greatest Need is acceptance..... Our Greatest Need is Salvation/Righteousness.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Oh I believe you. Legalism knows no bounds...

Then you must see Jesus as a legalist. He said it Not me.

[Michael The Disciple]

Quote from article

Keller then says what I believe to be the solution to our dilemma. “What we need is someone to love us who doesn’t need us at all. Someone who loves us radically, unconditionally, vulnerably. Someone who loves us just for our sake. If we received that kind of love, that would so assure us of our value, it would so fill us up, that maybe we could start to love like that too. Who can give love with no need? Jesus.”

This is not Biblical. Where in scripture are we told that God loves everybody radically and unconditionally?

The article

The love and acceptance we yearn for can only be found in Jesus. He doesn’t need us, but He loves and accepts us anyway. His love is perfect. And it’s unconditional. He’ll love you even if you won’t love Him back. And I agree with Keller.

This reveals the delusion. Teaching that Jesus loves and ACCEPTS us without condition. Anyone know a place where Jesus told anyone HE loves them and ACCEPTS them without conditions? This doctrine has ruined the faith of many and still is hard at work to portray another Jesus than the one the apostles presented.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Bella1

Simply....Thank you. I so needed this today.
Kelli

It's folks like you that I wrote it for. I needed it too, btw. I just share it hoping someone else might be encouraged too. Thanks for letting me know.