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View Poll Results: What are your freelings the son's pre-existence?
I think the son existed only in the plan of God before the incarnation. 14 41.18%
I don't thing the son existed at all before the incarnation. 5 14.71%
I think that the son existed in some manner with the Father before the incarnation. 11 32.35%
None of these explain my feelings. I will comment below. 4 11.76%
Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

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  #121  
Old 11-10-2011, 05:15 PM
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jfrog jfrog is offline
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Re: The Pre-Existence Of The Son

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
See. This is Arianism modified.
You're confused.
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  #122  
Old 11-10-2011, 05:21 PM
seekerman seekerman is offline
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Re: The Pre-Existence Of The Son

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Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
You have read Luke 24 & Jn 20 yes?
Yes. And also 1 Cor 15.
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  #123  
Old 11-10-2011, 05:27 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: The Pre-Existence Of The Son

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
See. This is Arianism modified.
Rather the truth has become so rare people dont recognize it for what it is.
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  #124  
Old 11-10-2011, 05:51 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: The Pre-Existence Of The Son

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
Form or body what is the difference and the word was 'permanent' was it not?
God created a blood cell very simple. But what happened to this permanest FORM then?
Everything has a form but not everything is a body

A coffee cup has the form of a coffee cup but it is not someone's body

They never said there was a permanent body...you are arguing a strawman
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Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #125  
Old 11-10-2011, 05:53 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: The Pre-Existence Of The Son

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
See. This is Arianism modified.
No, why don't you explain to us how it is Arianism modified.

Start by telling us what you think Arianism is, then explain what modified Arianism is, then tell us how what he said is "modified Arianism"
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #126  
Old 11-10-2011, 06:08 PM
Dante Dante is offline
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Re: The Pre-Existence Of The Son

I'm really surprised that Apostolics are even having this discussion. I guess some folks haven't made up their own mind what they believe. However, a discussion like this is good in terms of either drawing someone who isn't sure closer to the truth, driving them further from the truth, or solidifying what their own perception of the truth may be.

Either way...I guess this topic does need to be discussed.
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  #127  
Old 11-10-2011, 06:20 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: The Pre-Existence Of The Son

Trins love to use this scripture to prove the eternal son doctrine.

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created , that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Col. 1:12-17

While it does say the Son is Creator it also explains who the Son actually was at creation. The image of the invisible God. This is the same thing as the Logos. The Son pre existed as THE LOGOS.

The other scripture that says the Son is Creator contains the same explanation:

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high. Heb. 1:1-3

Note that Paul explains that the Son is the brightness of HIS glory and the express image of HIS person. So again Paul does say the Son was Creator but lets us know in what way the Son existed as Creator. As his visible image. Not another distinct person as an eternal son.

It is by the understanding of THE LOGOS doctrine that Oneness can defend its position against Trinitarianism. Without it we must admit that the Son existed from eternity as another person from the Father, close up shop and go home.

Last edited by Michael The Disciple; 11-10-2011 at 06:29 PM.
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  #128  
Old 11-10-2011, 06:28 PM
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Re: The Pre-Existence Of The Son

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante View Post
I'm really surprised that Apostolics are even having this discussion. I guess some folks haven't made up their own mind what they believe. However, a discussion like this is good in terms of either drawing someone who isn't sure closer to the truth, driving them further from the truth, or solidifying what their own perception of the truth may be.

Either way...I guess this topic does need to be discussed.
And what is your view?
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  #129  
Old 11-10-2011, 08:22 PM
TGBTG TGBTG is offline
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Re: The Pre-Existence Of The Son

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Without it we must admit that the Son existed from eternity as another person from the Father, close up shop and go home.
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  #130  
Old 11-11-2011, 12:29 AM
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Re: The Pre-Existence Of The Son

If the Son did not yet exist how did God make the worlds by the Son?
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