Crossdressing...Just how does a woman participate?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Do they?

I've never read it otherwise.

Now, how to dress.

The human body is a lofty medium, a gift from G-d that allows us to use this world in our pursuit of the spiritual. Jewish Law therefore requires that we honor our bodies, that is, ourselves, in recognizing our own holiness, and to dress ourselves with the dignity we and our bodies deserve.

The following is always appropriate, even when not dressing formally.

Clothing must reach up to the collar bone in the front, and to just below the nape of the neck in the back, and it must extend below the knees. Clothing should not be tight or revealing in any way.

Women's legs should be covered with stockings, not necessarily opaque. Taupe or beige are accepted in some communities, others suggest darker colors. Flashy colors, especially of stockings, are not good. The more glaring shades of red are forbidden in any sort of clothing. Men should not wear short pants.

Long sleeves that cover the elbows are also required. This is usually appropriate for both men and women, though it is mandatory only for women. Nevertheless, at a formal occasion mens' sleeves would normally be covered by a jacket. Women should wear dresses or skirts (without slits), but not pants. The dress or skirt should reach below the knees, and stockings should cover the legs until above the knee.

http://www.beingjewish.com/cycle/simchah.html

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by mfblume

We all indeed need to practice patience and encouragement, but I cannot help but believe your views are somewhat biased by pressure from others, although I would say you honestly cannot see it, which is honourable of you, really. But even if you did disagree and chose to sacrifice your freedoms, that is honourable as well! It is a no-lose situation for you, in that sense.

But those in the fellowship have that pressure, and I know firsthand. It's like some issues are places we just cannot go so long as we are in it, unless we simply choose to abide by this for the sake of unity, although we personally do not agree. I honestly think God honours such sacrifice. While I was with the fellowship I did not believe all the standards, but did not contend for those differences for the sake of unity. I even encouraged them for sake of unity. And I actually encourage anyone in the fellowship to not contend for such differences, or else such folks should get out. I say this in all sincerity that I believe God blessed me for sacrificing some liberties I felt fully free to enjoy for the sake of unity. I believe Paul taught that in Romans 14:22.

Roman 14: 22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

I think it is BETTER for the whole fellowship to cast off standards since they are silly, to be honest. And that way there would not be a need to sacrifice IN THAT ISSUE for unity. It's a silly sacrifice, but those who have liberties and have to enjoy them privately know that. And I know there are lots who do. But if God wanted me back in the fellowship I would keep the standards without complaint and sacrifice my liberty.

Thank you for your post. I'm always going to follow the will of God in my life regardless of advice or opinions others may have or try to give.

[MissBrattified]

PO, I meant that it was moot because scripture was written in a time when it would have been impossible to apply in the way it is today. Since at the time it was written men and women wore fairly unisex styles, then when women began wearing pants seems moot. At least, to the end of trying to determine whether a woman is putting on a man's garment when she puts on pants.

If we're trying to figure out what constitutes cross dressing, and Deut. 22:5 is at the root of this conversation since it's the only scripture of which I'm aware that addresses it, then we must consider the context and figure out how Hebrew women in ancient times could have applied this commandment. How would they have avoided cross dressing if everyone wore skirts or robes?

Also:

"Stricter Modern Orthodox practice is for sleeves to reach the elbows and shirts to cover the collarbone, skirts to cover the knees, and to eschew pants in the presence of men...."--http://www.davening.net/tznius.html

The above quote indicates that in the orthodox Jewish community, pants are limited for women because of modesty; not gender distinction. It also implies that pants are allowed for practical purposes unless men are present.

[*AQuietPlace*]

I have a friend who is Jewish. I asked her some questions about what they believed, and she said that opinions among those of the Jewish faith are as varied as those of the Christian faith. Those referenced above must be the ultra-cons.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I have a friend who is Jewish. I asked her some questions about what they believed, and she said that opinions among those of the Jewish faith are as varied as those of the Christian faith. Those referenced above must be the ultra-cons.

Yes. Orthodox Judaism is very conservative.

[Hoovie]

http://images.search.yahoo.com/image...mb=4vJ36PJ5xqj

[RandyWayne]

One interesting tidbit, if the goal is to impersonate the opposite sex then it is FAR easier for a woman to impersonate a man than the other way around. Trust me on this. When we lived in Madison, WI my wife worked at a pharmacy which had the highest percentage of pre and post-op transexuals in the USA. They all had either hormone or hormone and various drugs to prevent infections and rejections. It was almost always easy to tell the guys who went through the procedure but after a year of hormone treatments the women completely looked the part. They were usually shorter, but stocky with military haircuts and a guys chest from having a mastectomy. They even had facial hair and low voices to complete the package.

So the point is that it is easier for a woman to assume the look of a guy then the other. It is not taking off the pentecostal jean skirts, cutting off the poof and suddenly looking like a man.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I've never read it otherwise.

I went to the site and it says how to act and dress....at Jewish festive occasions, not necessarily all the time

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I understand your POV and appreciate your personal experience, Amanah, but I don't agree with your conclusions. There are just as many obese women in pants as in skirts. The 60% includes women from all walks of life--many of whom wear pants all the time--it isn't a cross section of only Apostolic women.

I didnt mean that only Apostolic women are fat. My point was that our sedentary lives contribute to our obesity, and the cure to that is to be able to exercise along with a healthy diet.

Being restricted to wearing dresses down to below your knees with long sleeves down to your wrists makes is much harder to exercise, much harder to be healthy. And its not just obesity that is at issue.

Exercise staves off heart disease, bone loss, loss of muscle mass, loss of flexibility, and can greatly increase your quality of life, reducing the possibility of you being a burden to society in your later years.

Most of us consider smoking to be a sin against the body, which is the temple of the Holy Ghost. the Md who authored "Younger Next Year," states that lack of physical exercise and a healthly diet is worse for your body then smoking.

When I made a post, not long ago on this subject, most of the women on this forum admited to not being at a healthy weight. It is a real concern.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

I thought most all UPC had abandoned Deut to support skirts on ladies. No?

uh... no.