Yeah, so what does this "evil system" do? It takes almost half the world's population (India & China) who had BILLIONS of people living in abject poverty barely out of the Bronze Age and they RAISE their standard of living at a rate of about 30% per year.
A rising tide lifts all boats... unless your boat is full of holes (unsustainable debt caused by socialism).
What we're seeing now is the West is learning the same lessons the commies learned in 1989.
Pel - I am really confused about your post. Not sure what "evil system" that you are talking about. I do agree with the points made about the foreign exchange markets. I have a friend that is a small player in this and his sole source of income is playing the foreign exchange markets.
I would not suggest this for the faint of heart, however.
My point is that in order for a one world economic order to happen income will have to be leveled for a large portion of the world. Which is what is in the process of happening with the Western world economic troubles.
And as you say, the enormous debt caused by socialism.
Then there will never be a mark of the beast that will effect the way we buy,sell,or trade?
There isn't already?
Remember, the "mark of the beast" was a number which involved - the man, his name, and the number of his name. This information is given immediately after we are told of an image that everyone must worship. He that fails to worship this image may be killed by the image itself. That number is given as "Six hundred threescore and six."
Where is the only place in the Bible where we can find any correlation to the number "Six hundred threescore and six?" And what image is associated with this number?
Then we ask... what was the sin committed by the builder of that first "666 image?" What was he rebelling against? What plan and purpose did God reveal to him before he made this image and how did the construction this image attempt to at least symbolically thwart the plans of God?
When we understand the motivation behind the first sin of rebellion associated with these symbols, we can then better understand what the angel was telling John in the Book of Revelation. The "mark of the Beast" has always been pretty much the same thing. It is the "mark" that distinguishes the "beast" (a "beast" is a "created entity" - a "creature" as opposed to the Creator).
So, what was the sin of the original type associated with this symbol? Whose actions manifest a similar or even the identical behavior today? Who already has this "mark?"
Remember, the "mark of the beast" was a number which involved - the man, his name, and the number of his name. This information is given immediately after we are told of an image that everyone must worship. He that fails to worship this image may be killed by the image itself. That number is given as "Six hundred threescore and six."
Where is the only place in the Bible where we can find any correlation to the number "Six hundred threescore and six?" And what image is associated with this number?
Then we ask... what was the sin committed by the builder of that first "666 image?" What was he rebelling against? What plan and purpose did God reveal to him before he made this image and how did the construction this image attempt to at least symbolically thwart the plans of God?
When we understand the motivation behind the first sin of rebellion associated with these symbols, we can then better understand what the angel was telling John in the Book of Revelation. The "mark of the Beast" has always been pretty much the same thing. It is the "mark" that distinguishes the "beast" (a "beast" is a "created entity" - a "creature" as opposed to the Creator).
So, what was the sin of the original type associated with this symbol? Whose actions manifest a similar or even the identical behavior today? Who already has this "mark?"
Can u explain this ,in a way that could more easily be understood?please
So you think the mark is "Sin".
Because Adam and Eve were lifting themselves up to be like God.
They were creatures and should not have rebelled and left their position.
I see all sin as an attempt to lift up the creature more than the creator.
This is a mark ,when the conscience (the mind of the soul) has been seered,so that the decisions a person makes come 100% from the desire of the flesh,because the conscience has no more input,then we become a son of perdition.
Thessalonians tells us of the son of perdition,who will be revealed,who lifts himself up above all that is called God ,so that he as God ,sits in the temple of God showing himself, that he is God.
Pel - I am really confused about your post. Not sure what "evil system" that you are talking about. I do agree with the points made about the foreign exchange markets. I have a friend that is a small player in this and his sole source of income is playing the foreign exchange markets.
I would not suggest this for the faint of heart, however.
My point is that in order for a one world economic order to happen income will have to be leveled for a large portion of the world. Which is what is in the process of happening with the Western world economic troubles.
And as you say, the enormous debt caused by socialism.
But the greatest amount of "leveling" has really come from the rising standards in China and India (and elsewhere, but these two have the Billions of people) and not from the U.S being dragged down.
In the U.S. the only real dip downward in the future appears to be caused by our refusal to leech off of our children the way our parents and grandparents have leeched off of us. The "high standards" enjoyed in America since the end of WW2 has always been something of an illusion. First it was due to the fact that every other industrial center on the planet was bombed to smithereens.
In 1946, over 50% of all manufacturing on the planet was being done in the U.S. That was great for our ego - but it was an unrealistic and even an unfair condition if we were to try and maintain it. Also, the inequity would eventually rebound against us unless we did something to kick start everybody else. And so, we gave up our manufacturing dominance and the pretty picture that it would have painted for us. We did this willingly - not because some global elite suckered us into it. We did it because Americans are a good, decent and caring people.
Next, when we were facing off with our communist competitors, the USSR and Red China, we eventually overcame them because of the inevitable flaws of the communist system. We could have swallowed their economies and even taken control of vital natural resources - at the threat of war, of course. But we could have resisted their rise - and we didn't. In fact we invested heavily in their rise.
Again, this wasn't some secret cabal dictating that we do with less while the rest of the world "caught up." In fact, just looking at the GDP numbers, we aren't really "doing with less." Even with this huge recession we're in - the GDP for last year looks to still be growing. It took a bit of dip in 2008 - but those losses merely took us back to the 2006/2007 levels. We lost a year of growth.
aegsm, there is already a "one world economic order." There has always been a "one world economic order." At different times, portions of this "order" have been rather disordered. At other times tyranny and injustice prevailed over large and small parts of the globe. What was the British Imperial system but a giant siphon that drained wealth away from subject nations and into the counting houses of London? Today, such a scheme couldn't exist without the gravest of outcries.
Your thesis seems to presume that there is some sort of divinely inspired (or "evilly inspired") direction to the global economic system that will inevitably produce your desired prophetic outcome. I don't see it that way. What I see on the global stage is a recurring cycle of consolidation and fragmentation. Things build and come together, then they fragment or parts are divested to other interests.
Consider this example where we look at the pattern projected against the map of just Europe. Watch how nations and empires rise, consolidate and then fragment. The same pattern can be seen all over the globe in political, economic and ethnic spheres and just about every other dimension of the human enterprise imaginable.
Despite the advantages to having a single world-wide currency I can't see it ever really happening. There's just too much money to be made both on the foreign exchange markets and in currency conversions.
I worked at Citibank when the euro first came out. The bank took a huge hit because they lost that 1% currency conversion fee in transfers between the Euro countries. Bankers loathe the idea of a single currency.
DINGDINGDINGDING!
beyond that, the Euro and the current economic stress has proven that a single currency does not provide much benefit when countered with the restrictions it places on individual nations/markets.
Spain, Ireland and a number of other Euro-zone nations would have benefitted from being free to expand/contract the amount of currency in circulation, however because they were part of a larger currency bloc, their national hands were tied and they were forced to rely on a group of nations to determine their economic fate.
single currency strategy doesn’t have near the benefit that some thought it did.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Can u explain this ,in a way that could more easily be understood?please
Quote:
Originally Posted by james34
So you think the mark is "Sin".
Because Adam and Eve were lifting themselves up to be like God.
They were creatures and should not have rebelled and left their position.
I see all sin as an attempt to lift up the creature more than the creator.
This is a mark ,when the conscience (the mind of the soul) has been seered,so that the decisions a person makes come 100% from the desire of the flesh,because the conscience has no more input,then we become a son of perdition.
Thessalonians tells us of the son of perdition,who will be revealed,who lifts himself up above all that is called God ,so that he as God ,sits in the temple of God showing himself, that he is God.
You've done a nice job of explaining it yourself there. I think that you and I are in essential agreement here. I'm fairly certain that aegsm and I are in agreement when it comes to the essential parts of this discussion as well.
I personally just don't see every evil as representing some "EOTWAWKI" scenario. And, I especially don't see every trend toward consolidation as being "evil" or a portent of the Antichrist. In many cases consolidation can even represent good, just and godly things. We just need to be pragmatic and recognize that the world of human affairs goes through cycles just like it goes through seasonal and climatic cycles... but it still keeps spinning around.
In 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, Paul warns the Thessalonians to be on the look out ... for what? For something that had already happened 200 years prior - See Daniel 8:9-14 and Daniel 11:21-35 for a discussion concerning "that man of sin" Antiochus Epiphanes IV. In a sense, he is saying, "This awful stuff happens and will continue to happen in pretty much the same pattern as we have seen it in the past."
The fact that Paul at least appears to be thinking that the return of Christ was imminent almost 2,000 years ago is unmistakable. Obviously, no one knew "the day nor the hour" and the apostles seemed to think that His return was very soon. The fact that all of the apostles except John were murdered for their faith would probably make anyone feel a bit jumpy around that time, to say the least, especially in an environment where there was so much uncertainty about the matter of Christ's return (Matthew 24:42-44; Mark 13:32-37) any way.
And yet Christ did not return nor did the world end. It just kept spinning around for another 2,000 years. What are we to make of this? Should we be "jumpy" and twitch every time some mad tyrant slaughters our brethren? Or would it be best to adopt a more pragmatic approach? Let's assume that there will always be a wanna-be antichrist around the corner and that our own world could end tomorrow - while everyone else's just keeps spinning around. That's my opinion. After all, just why did Paul pull out an event that had already happened to warn the Thessalonians about something that was about to happen (and did happen during the Roman persecutions of the church)? What kind of "prophecy" is that? I think it's the best kind, because it's easier to understand... what will happen is what has already happened before.
"aegsm, there is already a "one world economic order." There has always been a "one world economic order." At different times, portions of this "order" have been rather disordered. At other times tyranny and injustice prevailed over large and small parts of the globe. What was the British Imperial system but a giant siphon that drained wealth away from subject nations and into the counting houses of London? Today, such a scheme couldn't exist without the gravest of outcries.
Your thesis seems to presume that there is some sort of divinely inspired (or "evilly inspired") direction to the global economic system that will inevitably produce your desired prophetic outcome. I don't see it that way. What I see on the global stage is a recurring cycle of consolidation and fragmentation. Things build and come together, then they fragment or parts are divested to other interests. "
Pel - you have again succeeded in totally confusing me. My first post stated that we were further down the road to a one world economic system than we have been, before. You evidently disagree with that. That's fine. In my opinion we have never been closer. The fast, easy flow of information in our age makes this possible in a way that would never have been before.
Insofar as a theis, I believe most of my posts have been short and sweet.
I really have not spent much time researching this, and frankly am not that worried about it.
If I cared that much I would spend a few minutes searching and I am sure that I could come up with articles that would support my position.
As you could with yours.
What I find sort of funny, is that evidently I hit a nerve with you, for you to respond so vehemently.
God Bless.
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