Almost saved- so near and yet so far

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

I want to live as close to God as possible, and He has placed things within me to want to live. But, when there is no power of God, men make rules. This is now what I am seeing, a lack of God's powers and rules implemented to mask what is missing. And, let me say this that I know of good Baptist brethren who live more saved that some Ultra-Con Apostolics.

UT - you are painting with too broad of a brush.
I didn't take the time to read this entire thread, but have read enough to get the point, I believe.
This is why I hate the labels. Being saved is not a 1-step or 3-step program.
It is a process, that leads us on to become more like Him every day, hopefully.
We need to be aware of who we are and Whose we are every minute of our day.
In one sense, we are ambassadors of Christ.
That is why the stories like the one above, of the Apostolics in the restaurant, pain me.
Maybe they were just having a bad day or maybe they have missed the whole point of who they are.
But, back to my issue with your post. Everyone has rules, everyone has standards, so do not point the finger at the rules as being the problem.
I too have seen churches with rules for everything, but no power.
But, I have also seen churches with rules, that have great power with God.
God will visit any people who have a hunger and thrist for him.
What they do with that visitation is the rest of the story.

[A.W. Bowman]

I would also recommend the thread on this forum, A Critical Analysis The target article address some of the issues highlighted in this thread.

While the thread address its points toward the UPCI in particular and Pentecostalism in general, my observations and experience would expand its scope to include the entire Western Christian church culture. While one may not agree with everything the original author attempts to 'correct', he will give one reason to pause and reflect.

[A.W. Bowman]

In the final analysis, it will boil down to this:

One will most often base their relationship with God according to their experiences within their earthly family/social/professional relationships - and how they perceived and handled those relationships, especially in the areas of 'rewards and punishment' and the group dynamics of authority, influence and control.

This thread exposes the mind set that declares that being under (submitted to) the laws of religious men, one can earn their salvation and/or God's approval. Tat salvation is predicated on what one does and the manner in which those obligations are performed, rather than who you are in Christ Jesus, the fruit of your life and the Spirit that dwells within you (love with faith, peace, joy, etc), as expressed in one's daily life and in the 'good works' that were ordained for each called person of God to walk in.

So be it. For those who think God is impotent to take care of His own body, within the organizational and ministry structure He has placed in His word, without your help, advice and correction, and control of His children, then continue on. As for me, I shall follow all of the the apostolic teachings (by word and spirit) as revealed in the original languages.

Remember, one of our more famous doctrines is that if one holds to and/or teaches a false doctrine, they will go to hell. Therefore, if any holder to a man-made doctrine, or a doctrine that has been altered in anyway by the philosophies of men, then by definition, that person holds to and/or teaches a false doctrine.

The results: If anyone holds to any false doctrine, however slight, out of our own mouths we stand condemned before God, and are worthy of the righteous judgment that we have earned. For those who re justified by their own works and seek to make disciples after themselves, I again refer them to Matthew 23.

To those who preach selective acceptance and implementation of the Law in order to acquire their salvation or to gain and/or maintain God's approval, I refer them to Galatians 2:16, 1 Timothy 1:3-11, Revelation 12:17; 14:12 & 22:14.

Because such teachers neither know nor understand God's instructions in righteousness, they must add to and diminish from the word of God (twist scripture) in order to justify their own doctrines (Deuteronomy 4:2; 12:32).

Well, so be it. Yet, remember, even if one has some spiritual successes in speaking in tongues, the working of miracles, prophesying, the casting out of devils, etc, even to making over a large assembly into your own image (dress, speech, actions, etc.), you (me, anyone) can still stand before Jesus and hear the words, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." The sad thing is that "ye that work iniquity" still don't (even even today refuse) to get it. There is little self examination before the Spirit and word of God, and therefore little repentance or a true circumcision of one's heart, for these individuals remain justified in their own eyes and in the opinions of other men - forgetting one of the most fundamental doctrines of God: It is He alone who chooses, calls, ordains, establishes, and justifies - not men, assemblies, or organizations.

Therefore, it would be nice to read more sound biblical doctrines on these pages, and not a rehash of religious traditions and doctrines that do violence to the word of God.

[El Predicador]

The next day they go before the judge and the following occurs

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Now thats what I call a zinger. LOL Revealing your elbows is "close to the edge" and hell just isn't worth a "beard".

This would be funny if it wasn't so sad. Your view of God is of one who rules with an iron fist, who is a dicator, and who is waiting to see if you put on a t-shirt so you can burn in hell with murders, theives, adulters, and the like.

I can imagine that conversation in the context of a conversation at the local county jail,
Q "So what are you in for?
A. Murder 1

guilty go to hell
Q. What about you?
A. Possesion and intent to distribute

Guilty go to hell

[the two look over to the new guy-obviously looking out of place]
Q. What are you here for?
A. multiple offenses, I didn't shave for 3 days, got hot while mowing the yard and rolled up my sleeves, revealing my ungodly elbows, and wore a brass watch from the local dollar store. Also, my wife will be arriving shortly, my child had some gum in her hair, and my wife had to use scissors to get it out. Captial offense where we're from.

You are condemned from your own mouth, since you knew it was a capital offense and you did it away. Unfortunately for you, in this court there is only one punishment for willful disobedience, go join the other two, and we will be waiting for your wife as well

.

[missourimary]

Originally Posted by El Predicador

The next day they go before the judge and the following occurs

Whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Therefore the third man might be seated there. Did the liberal make it if she trimmed her daughters hair, if he had a beard, and she wore coulottes, even though the man with higher standards who let down a few times did not, since the liberal didn't believe he was doing anything wrong?

[El Predicador]

Originally Posted by missourimary

Whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Therefore the third man might be seated there. Did the liberal make it if she trimmed her daughters hair, if he had a beard, and she wore coulottes, even though the man with higher standards who let down a few times did not, since the liberal didn't believe he was doing anything wrong?

Have to ask Jason, he was the one who said

the third man willfully did what he knew was a capital offense.

He apparently was trying to make a point about inequity of punishment.

There is only ONE wage of sin

[El Predicador]

Originally Posted by El Predicador

Have to ask Jason, he was the one who said

the third man willfully did what he knew was a capital offense.

He apparently was trying to make a point about inequity of punishment.

There is only ONE wage of sin

BUMP for Jason

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by OldPathsII

This is typical response whenever truth is unveiled, "Oh, I don't want to judge, let's just leave that up to God." Well, we have a BIG problem here. Do you really want to just wait until you're standing before God to find out whether or not you made it? Wouldn't you rather have someone telling you the truth, truth that may hurt but truth that will save your soul?

This thread was opened beautifully! Is it really worht an earring, a beard, a glittery watch? Do you really need to show your elbows that bad? Why does everyone want to see how close to the edge they can get?

Hell just isn't worth it!

OPII, it's not about how close we can get, this is about the TRUTH! You boldly claim you know for a FACT that you are SAVED. Tell me, how do you know? How do you know you'll make it? What makes YOU so special????

I want to ask you a point, blank question; would you throw your son or daughter into a pit of fire where they would suffer forever? How about your wife? Think about it, your own flesh and blood. The Bible says that God is our FATHER and that He loves us as His own Children!

How about Solomon? Is Solomon burning in flames of torment, forever? The Scripture says he died an Idolater and a Whoremonger. What about him being the wisest man that ever lived? How about the FACT that we use 3 Books in our Bible that Solomon apparently wrote; Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and The Song of Solomon.

Hell is a guessing game. Hell is a maybe. Hell is something we CAN'T prove, and, Hell (Eternal torture/Christian Hell) has its origin in Ancient Egypt and Greece, centuries before Jesus was born.

God would NEVER punish humanity for something they can't substantiate with an absolute, YES or NO. With a million opinions of how to avoid this unbelievable Torture Chamber, it's more than obvious that HELL is RELIGIONS revenge and last card in laying a guilt trip on the disobedient.

The Christian Hell makes absolutely no sense, and does not measure up to a sound theological conclusion or judgment for the weak and sin-sick of this World. God allowing mankind to propagate this Earth so the abyss of Hell can be full of screaming souls for Eternity does not promote a God of Love, but a God of TERROR, no mercy, and confusion.

Hands down, the greatest weapon in Religion is manipulation via Spectral Evidence.

[Socialite]

NFS, Respectfully, we can struggle to understand hell, but it takes serious scriptural acrobatics to sufficiently prove it's not part of the Christian theology. Whether the idea goes beyond pre-Hebrew times or not.

Hell/Eternal Separation is the reality that moved God enough that He had to send His Son to die a bloody death.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Socialite

NFS, Respectfully, we can struggle to understand hell, but it takes serious scriptural acrobatics to sufficiently prove it's not part of the Christian theology. Whether the idea goes beyond pre-Hebrew times or not.

Hell/Eternal Separation is the reality that moved God enough that He had to send His Son to die a bloody death.

Ok, so why does Hell/Eternal Torture, exist before the New Testament in other cultures/generations? The connection with Christianities Hell and with the Greek Hades is far too coincidental. The “Church” is known for embracing demonized concepts that surround Religion and Culture. The Jews did this, the Indians did it, and all Cultures do it.

I'm sorry, Socialite, but the magic appearance of Hell in the New Testament is a big problem with me. This is an inconsistent and strange shift in the entire spectrum of God's dealings with Humanity.

We honestly can't prove, nor do we know who will in FACT go there. It's nothing but a guess. I don’t believe Hell should be a struggle to understand. It’s way too graphic, horrible, and far too long, and as a weak and insecure human, I have a hard enough time dealing with what I can see.