The Truth about the Afterlife

NotforSale · #1 01-19-2011, 01:19 PM

I've had numerous discussions on AFF about the Afterlife (Heaven, Hell, ect). I can't help but consider how bold we can be about a place we've never been too, while ignoring the facts about how these Eternal dogmas came about via, History, Religion, Ancient writings, and Cultures/Teachings of past civilizations.

Also, the evolution of this subject must be understood; Ladies and Gentlemen, the Jews did not, and do not believe in the Christian Heaven or Hell (Eternal Damnation). The Torah and Old Testament do not support our current Christian ideals about the afterlife, and this is a huge problem. We are supporting this teaching without accurately investigating the TRUTH about the origin of Eternal doctrine, ignoring this spiritual transition of bad to worse.

The Jews believe this subject to be more of a "Personal Opinion". They also talk about reincarnation, and that many lives may be what follow a person's existence. For those Jews who do believe in an Afterlife, the punishment of those who don’t deserve Gan Eden in the Olam Ha-Ba (World to come), spend a 12 month period Gehinnom, and when purification is over they move on to better dimensions, not worse. Some Jews feel the extremely wicked will be annihilated after the 12 month penance, not tormented for Eternity.

Below is a link and paragraph which discusses this subject on behalf of Judaism. It appears that this later understanding of Eternity might be the result of leveraging discipline upon those who were disobedient in the Church, as unknown realms are a torment to most people. It’s just like a Country or Nation when people decide to ignore or rebel against a Government; enforcement is amped up until obedience is achieved.

This again is the path of using the "Unseen" to gain a dominant momentum within a Belief, using FEAR to control. I believe it is morally and ethically wrong to even use the Christian “Hell” in the predominant ways of the past, as this takes advantage of the weak in mind and spirit, manipulating people with a God of terror. We also discredit ourselves by perpetuating Eternal Ultimatums that can’t be proven and which directly contradict the teachings of previous people who supposedly had direct insight with God.

http://www.jewfaq.org/olamhaba.htm

Traditional Judaism firmly believes that death is not the end of human existence. However, because Judaism is primarily focused on life here and now rather than on the afterlife, Judaism does not have much dogma about the afterlife, and leaves a great deal of room for personal opinion. It is possible for an Orthodox Jew to believe that the souls of the righteous dead go to a place similar to the Christian heaven, or that they are reincarnated through many lifetimes, or that they simply wait until the coming of the messiah, when they will be resurrected. Likewise, Orthodox Jews can believe that the souls of the wicked are tormented by demons of their own creation, or that wicked souls are simply destroyed at death, ceasing to exist.

Aquila · #2 01-19-2011, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotforSale

I've had numerous discussions on AFF about the Afterlife (Heaven, Hell, ect). I can't help but consider how bold we can be about a place we've never been too, while ignoring the facts about how these Eternal dogmas came about via, History, Religion, Ancient writings, and Cultures/Teachings of past civilizations.

Also, the evolution of this subject must be understood; Ladies and Gentlemen, the Jews did not, and do not believe in the Christian Heaven or Hell (Eternal Damnation). The Torah and Old Testament do not support our current Christian ideals about the afterlife, and this is a huge problem. We are supporting this teaching without accurately investigating the TRUTH about the origin of Eternal doctrine, ignoring this spiritual transition of bad to worse.

The Jews believe this subject to be more of a "Personal Opinion". They also talk about reincarnation, and that many lives may be what follow a person's existence. For those Jews who do believe in an Afterlife, the punishment of those who don’t deserve Gan Eden in the Olam Ha-Ba (World to come), spend a 12 month period Gehinnom, and when purification is over they move on to better dimensions, not worse. Some Jews feel the extremely wicked will be annihilated after the 12 month penance, not tormented for Eternity.

Below is a link and paragraph which discusses this subject on behalf of Judaism. It appears that this later understanding of Eternity might be the result of leveraging discipline upon those who were disobedient in the Church, as unknown realms are a torment to most people. It’s just like a Country or Nation when people decide to ignore or rebel against a Government; enforcement is amped up until obedience is achieved.

This again is the path of using the "Unseen" to gain a dominant momentum within a Belief, using FEAR to control. I believe it is morally and ethically wrong to even use the Christian “Hell” in the predominant ways of the past, as this takes advantage of the weak in mind and spirit, manipulating people with a God of terror. We also discredit ourselves by perpetuating Eternal Ultimatums that can’t be proven and which directly contradict the teachings of previous people who supposedly had direct insight with God.

http://www.jewfaq.org/olamhaba.htm

Traditional Judaism firmly believes that death is not the end of human existence. However, because Judaism is primarily focused on life here and now rather than on the afterlife, Judaism does not have much dogma about the afterlife, and leaves a great deal of room for personal opinion. It is possible for an Orthodox Jew to believe that the souls of the righteous dead go to a place similar to the Christian heaven, or that they are reincarnated through many lifetimes, or that they simply wait until the coming of the messiah, when they will be resurrected. Likewise, Orthodox Jews can believe that the souls of the wicked are tormented by demons of their own creation, or that wicked souls are simply destroyed at death, ceasing to exist.

The source of the problem is the glorification of Judaism at the expense of NT revelation. The NT is superior to the Torah. The NT is actually the fulfillment of the Torah. In the Torah and the rest of the OT we have only shadows. The NT is pure light from light. Jesus, God in flesh, knows far more about the afterlife than any prophet of the OT, therefore His word trumps the vague references found in the prophetic writings. The Christian today is walking in greater light than the Torah could ever provide.

Also the NT tells us tons about Heaven…if you know how to look for it. The NT also tells us plenty about Hell…if one is willing to receive it.

One of the greatest errors among Apostolics is the over glorification of the OT. It doesn't matter what the OT states or how Judaism interprets the OT. All that matters is what Jesus Himself taught us. In Christ we can revisit the obscure passages of the OT and see them through NT light and anointing.

Tell me…what do you believe the Bible to say about Heaven? Share your understanding… and I’ll share mine.

coadie · #3 01-19-2011, 02:01 PM

The Jews need a little come to Jesus meeting to straighten them out.

coadie · #4 01-19-2011, 02:02 PM

Ooops. Just remember my suggestion won't go over very well.

Aquila · #5 01-19-2011, 02:54 PM

I hope Coadie isn't responding to me... he's on my ignore list. lol

NotforSale · #6 01-19-2011, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

The source of the problem is the glorification of Judaism at the expense of NT revelation. The NT is superior to the Torah. The NT is actually the fulfillment of the Torah. In the Torah and the rest of the OT we have only shadows. The NT is pure light from light. Jesus, God in flesh, knows far more about the afterlife than any prophet of the OT, therefore His word trumps the vague references found in the prophetic writings. The Christian today is walking in greater light than the Torah could ever provide.

Also the NT tells us tons about Heaven…if you know how to look for it. The NT also tells us plenty about Hell…if one is willing to receive it.

One of the greatest errors among Apostolics is the over glorification of the OT. It doesn't matter what the OT states or how Judaism interprets the OT. All that matters is what Jesus Himself taught us. In Christ we can revisit the obscure passages of the OT and see them through NT light and anointing.

Tell me…what do you believe the Bible to say about Heaven? Share your understanding… and I’ll share mine.

Question; New Testament aside, is what the Jews taught and believed about the Afterlife in the past, wrong?

Also, Prophets and those in the Old Testament such as Moses and Abraham had an apparent direct line to the Almighty God. Do you feel that the words of Jesus were greater than the words spoke directly by God?

aegsm76 · #7 01-19-2011, 03:24 PM

NFS - do you believe the Bible is the inspired word of God?

NotforSale · #8 01-19-2011, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegsm76

NFS - do you believe the Bible is the inspired word of God?

Appreciate if you woud stick to the topic. PM me if you would like.

Thanks, NFS

Aquila · #9 01-19-2011, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Question; New Testament aside, is what the Jews taught and believed about the Afterlife in the past, wrong?

Also, Prophets and those in the Old Testament such as Moses and Abraham had an apparent direct line to the Almighty God. Do you feel that the words of Jesus were greater than the words spoke directly by God?

I don't believe God directly addressed the afterlife with the prophets. We see some implications that are debated among rabbis, but that's all. Jesus is eternity stepping into time. Jesus would know about Hell... Jesus would know about the final judgment. The Jews weren't "wrong"... it's just all they had to go by are vague implications and shadows of an unknown reality.

Moses wasn't God in flesh...Abraham wasn't God in flesh. None of the prophets were God in flesh. The prophets were just men of their day. No doubt they as men didn't have a fully developed doctrine of the afterlife beyond what was considered to be the popular opinion of their day. Also, no one but Jesus has risen from the grave. Jesus is the fountain head of Christian understanding. Not the OT.

NotforSale · #10 01-19-2011, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

I don't believe God directly addressed the afterlife with the prophets. We see some implications that are debated among rabbis, but that's all. Jesus is eternity stepping into time. Jesus would know about Hell... Jesus would know about the final judgment. The Jews weren't "wrong"... it's just all they had to go by are vague implications and shadows of an unknown reality.

Moses wasn't God in flesh...Abraham wasn't God in flesh. None of the prophets were God in flesh. The prophets were just men of their day. No doubt they as men didn't have a fully developed doctrine of the afterlife beyond what was considered to be the popular opinion of their day. Also, no one but Jesus has risen from the grave. Jesus is the fountain head of Christian understanding. Not the OT.

I didn't say that Moses was God in flesh; but he was a man who apparently heard God speak, writing down what he heard. That is all that the New Testament is; men who wrote down what they apparently heard Jesus say. Jesus Christ did not write the New Testament. (Interesting note that you already know; the Gospels were recorded and written 60-100 years after Jesus had died and not by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.)

Now, back to the Eternal Life issue. Knowing what the New Testament says about Heaven and Hell, these are very dramatic ends to the souls of men if we believe our Translations to be accurate, which I don't feel they are. But anyway, for the sake of those who stake their claim in the Heaven/Hell dogma of modern Christianity, for God to withhold such information leaves way too many other doors open that only confuse the World of Faith.

I also disagree that they in the Old Testament didn't have a fully developed Doctrine. There are infinite details in the Torah that spell out clearly how man was to adhere to moral Law and conduct. To this day, Jews still use the Torah as the basis for all they do in Family, Government, and Religion.

For the Eternal destiny of mankind to change from one generation to the next is inconsistent and confusing. And, God could have easily told Moses on the Mount that people would go to Hell if they didn't obey the Torah.

Old Testament ritual, Temple practices, and other physical demands are the very things that progressed away from our current Church model. But the Afterlife shouldn't be included in this evolution, as to change what happens within realms we can't see is a far too difficult path to follow. And, this allows the Religious Authorities of our planet to manipulate the unlearned.

It is, or it isn't. People have a hard enough time learning about what they can see, let alone what they can't see.

Appreciate your input, Aquila.