The Reason Some Apostolics Are Concerned: The Results of Erased Lines

Much has been said about Tulsa, the UPC's Resolution #4 and even the P.A.W. lately. Obviously there are some serious concerns in the Apostolic movement about the laying down of spiritual disciplines and changing of direction that many groups are experiencing.

The reason? It seldom stops once the decline starts. One recent example is exemplified by the vote the College of Bishops of the P.A.W. (Similar to our General Board) just had in which they voted 55 to 58 to basically accept the trinitarian movement and allow them as Brothers and Sisters in their pulpits.

Can you imagine that one of the strongest doctrinal groups that ever lived is now only THREE votes away from accepting trinitarians as right? Look at them closely and you'll see (a fact that was even acknowledged by Bishop Morris E. Golder) a gradual decline that covered the entire spectrum beginning at a disregarding of Apostolic disciplines, overlooking sin to keep talent, ignoring false doctrines and now accepting heresy as doctrinally viable.

THREE votes... The oldest oneness organization and the greatest doctrinal preachers I've ever heard are now three votes away from accepting heresy.

God wake us up.

[ThePastorsCoach]

The reason some are concerned is they are Control Freaks.

[Sandra]

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop

The reason some are concerned is they are Control Freaks.

exactly!!

[Joseph Miller]

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop

The reason some are concerned is they are Control Freaks.

I couldn't have said it better Bishop.

Originally Posted by Joseph Miller

I couldn't have said it better Bishop.

Bro. Miller,

You didn't seem to believe that when you asked to come preach for me a few years ago. What changed your mind?

[Joseph Miller]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

Bro. Miller,

You didn't seem to believe that when you asked to come preach for me a few years ago. What changed your mind?

I am not a lib as Bishop but I am not an uc.

I have changed my view over the years to where I am not as conservative as I was. I am a middle of the road guy. I guess in traveling the nation preaching and fellowshipping with various people that I have come to realize that people who are all the time "harping" on standards are not actually getting people to fall in love with Jesus as much as they are a set of guidelines.

I am in love with Jesus. I have not changed how I live near as much as how I view the approach to it. I think that if we will preach Jesus and get people to develop a relationship with Jesus then alot of the other things take care of themselves. My wife don't wear make up, cut her hair or wear pants. My wife don't even wear splits. We do wear wedding rings and all my dress shirt are french cuff which means I wear cuff links a lot. Most of my shirts are not white. I think I own 2 white shirts. There was a time that none of that applied to me. I was living rules to fit in with a crowd. Now the things I live are totally because I love Jesus not because it is the rule of a certain crowd.

I know that to actually call all UC "control freaks" is a broad brush. I am not positive that as to who you may be. You may not be on of the "control freaks".

Maybe I should revise my statement and say that for some I have met, the term "control freak" does fit, but for others I can honestly say that it don't.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by Joseph Miller

I am not a lib as Bishop but I am not an uc.

I have changed my view over the years to where I am not as conservative as I was. I am a middle of the road guy. I guess in traveling the nation preaching and fellowshipping with various people that I have come to realize that people who are all the time "harping" on standards are not actually getting people to fall in love with Jesus as much as they are a set of guidelines.

I am in love with Jesus. I have not changed how I live near as much as how I view the approach to it. I think that if we will preach Jesus and get people to develop a relationship with Jesus then alot of the other things take care of themselves. My wife don't wear make up, cut her hair or wear pants. My wife don't even wear splits. We do wear wedding rings and all my dress shirt are french cuff which means I wear cuff links a lot. Most of my shirts are not white. I think I own 2 white shirts. There was a time that none of that applied to me. I was living rules to fit in with a crowd. Now the things I live are totally because I love Jesus not because it is the rule of a certain crowd.

I know that to actually call all UC "control freaks" is a broad brush. I am not positive that as to who you may be. You may not be on of the "control freaks".

Maybe I should revise my statement and say that for some I have met, the term "control freak" does fit, but for others I can honestly say that it don't.

That is exactly how I believe and wish I'd been raised that way. Perhaps I'd be a different person today.

[determined]

Originally Posted by Joseph Miller

I am in love with Jesus. I have not changed how I live near as much as how I view the approach to it. I think that if we will preach Jesus and get people to develop a relationship with Jesus then alot of the other things take care of themselves.

It seems some pastors want to control with lists of rules and requirements to the point that people develope a relationship with THAT instead of a relationship with God. If a man is telling them every single thing to do and how to live their live what is left for them to seek God? How can they develop conviction in their own lives? I believe in wise counsel from minister/pastors but some goes way past that. Even in raising children at some point you have to back away and give them a chance to make choices and set boundaries for themselves.

[ILG]

I understand the concern of erased lines, Steadfast, but I have to ask the question: If a person's relationship with Jesus is based on rules to the extent that they are going to sin without the rules, how much of a relationship with Jesus does a person really have? Doesn't the Bible say that his Word would be written on our HEARTS? If the rules are gone, is the heart Word erased?? Seriously.

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop

The reason some are concerned is they are Control Freaks.

AB:

Perhaps a few are... but most are not. By the way, why is that anybody that still holds firm to Apostolic disciplines are immediately branded by you as control freaks? You know that is a really broad brush.

I could say some interesting things about you, since you let go of many things you once said you believed, that would put you in the same company as Hinn, Bakker and Swaggart, Bynum (who let go of things), Weeks and many others... but that would be a really broad brush would it not?

Has nothing to do with being control freaks for the vast, very vast majority of them; it has to do with being loyal to the message that brought us to where we are.

I just can't figure out why you seem to hate that so much.