The Concept of Biblical Separation

[Elihu]

If we are to be separate in the classic Oneness Pentecostal understanding of the word, why are we not in cloistered communities?

Have we really "come out from among them"? Why do we only measure separation in terms of dress? Aren't there other areas we should separate ourselves from as well?

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by shamgar1

If we are to be separate in the classic Oneness Pentecostal understanding of the word, why are we not in cloistered communities?

Have we really "come out from among them"? Why do we only measure separation in terms of dress? Aren't there other areas we should separate ourselves from as well?

The short answer is "YES!"

[Truly Blessed]

Do OPs never tire of this discussion of holiness standards? It is my opinion that the main reason for this preoccupation is the lack of security concerning their salvation. While some will argue that outward standards is not a salvation issue, the constant questioning of whether someone is "holy" and the constant judging of one another based on personal convictions indicates one doesn't understand the basis of their standing with God, thus the insecurity.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

Do OPs never tire of this discussion of holiness standards? It is my opinion that the main reason for this preoccupation is the lack of security concerning their salvation. While some will argue that outward standards is not a salvation issue, the constant questioning of whether someone is "holy" and the constant judging of one another based on personal convictions indicates one doesn't understand the basis of their standing with God, thus the insecurity.

As one who adheres to the so-called 'standard', I have to wonder if you don't have a point...one which I tried to make not long ago.

It is constant and a bit worrisome to be honest, for while we debate the same questions, arriving at the same conclusions, there are those we could be encouraging to hang on in there.

Certainly, there may be new posters who have not gone 'round this same mountain, but it is not to them we are speaking. It seems to be the long-term posters who keep rehashing the same "are her sleeves long enough?!"

I am secure in what I believe and of my standing with Christ, not based on how I look, but the work that was accomplished on the cross.

All the rest that I mentioned on the other thread last night about conversation and modesty and the rest are byproducts of an inward holiness that abides.

I admit that this realization has been a long time coming, but thank God it has...

[OP_Carl]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

Do OPs never tire of this discussion of holiness standards?

Do blab-it-and-grab-its never tire of trying to pull down the standards so they can be conspicuously consumed of their jealousy of the things of the world without losing their standing in the church?

It is my opinion that the main reason for this preoccupation is the lack of security concerning their salvation.

And your opinion is WRONG. Well, for me, at least.

While some will argue that outward standards is not a salvation issue, the constant questioning of whether someone is "holy" and the constant judging of one another based on personal convictions indicates one doesn't understand the basis of their standing with God, thus the insecurity.

And some will argue that because they have run into a handful of Apostolic Pharisees in their life, that the entire population of people who lovingly surrender to God as much of their lives as they understand they ought to (people that adhere to standards for the right reasons) are a bunch of judgmental legalistic wingnuts.

Improper methods employed to attain a goal do not invalidate the goal.

The secular world never stops judging each other - they just use a man-made yardstick.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

Do blab-it-and-grab-its never tire of trying to pull down the standards so they can be conspicuously consumed of their jealousy of the things of the world without losing their standing in the church?

And your opinion is WRONG. Well, for me, at least.



And some will argue that because they have run into a handful of Apostolic Pharisees in their life, that the entire population of people who lovingly surrender to God as much of their lives as they understand they ought to (people that adhere to standards for the right reasons) are a bunch of judgmental legalistic wingnuts.

Improper methods employed to attain a goal do not invalidate the goal.

The secular world never stops judging each other - they just use a man-made yardstick.

But don't we do the same thing?!

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

Do blab-it-and-grab-its never tire of trying to pull down the standards so they can be conspicuously consumed of their jealousy of the things of the world without losing their standing in the church?

And your opinion is WRONG. Well, for me, at least.



And some will argue that because they have run into a handful of Apostolic Pharisees in their life, that the entire population of people who lovingly surrender to God as much of their lives as they understand they ought to (people that adhere to standards for the right reasons) are a bunch of judgmental legalistic wingnuts.

Improper methods employed to attain a goal do not invalidate the goal.

The secular world never stops judging each other - they just use a man-made yardstick.

Did you get up on the wrong coast this morning? It never ceases to amaze me how judgmental we get toward those we feel are being judgmental.

Three deep breathes and come back to rational thinking.

Blessings, Rhoni

[OP_Carl]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Did you get up on the wrong coast this morning? It never ceases to amaze me how judgmental we get toward those we feel are being judgmental.

Three deep breathes and come back to rational thinking.

Blessings, Rhoni

Rhoni,

In an effort to demonstrate absurdity via the absurd, I mirrored the concepts, rhetoric, and possibly the attitude that I saw in TB's post, and pushed the questioning in the other direction. You might even say I parodied it.

For this, I receive your post regarding drama, grouchiness, judgmentalism, and irrationality.

Why does TB's post not get the same treatment? All the same elements were there?







Ahhhhh, never mind, I already know the answer!

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

Rhoni,

In an effort to demonstrate absurdity via the absurd, I mirrored the concepts, rhetoric, and possibly the attitude that I saw in TB's post, and pushed the questioning in the other direction. You might even say I parodied it.

For this, I receive your post regarding drama, grouchiness, judgmentalism, and irrationality.

Why does TB's post not get the same treatment? All the same elements were there?







Ahhhhh, never mind, I already know the answer!

Truth is, this sin is committed on both sides of the fence. Notwithstanding the perceived slight, OPC, coming from a liberal point of view, I must admit that for a liberal to judge a conservative is just as grievious of a sin as the conservative judging the liberal.

Unfortunately, in our ranks, it's much more accepted for the right wing to judge the left wing for their lack of "holiness" than it is for the liberal to judge the conservative for his/her lack of "liberty". In both cases, there is much scripture against both.

I am extremely bothered by people who will misinterpret scripture to build a doctrine of exclusivism, and yet ignore plain scripture in black and white to judge others for their "differentness" and claim that they are "contending for the faith".

And that goes for both sides..........

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

Rhoni,

In an effort to demonstrate absurdity via the absurd, I mirrored the concepts, rhetoric, and possibly the attitude that I saw in TB's post, and pushed the questioning in the other direction. You might even say I parodied it.

For this, I receive your post regarding drama, grouchiness, judgmentalism, and irrationality.

Why does TB's post not get the same treatment? All the same elements were there?







Ahhhhh, never mind, I already know the answer!

You're blaming my post for your bad attitude? I often say to our congregation that attitudes are a lot like toothpaste, when squeezed what's inside comes out.

I can't see how anything I said in my post could be considered a bad attitude or absurd. I wasn't arguing against standards, I was only making an observation that spans 34 years of ministry.

I believe the Christian life is an "insulated" life, not an "isolated" life. Holiness is unto the Lord. Scripture teaches us that it is our love that impacts the world. That love is disseminated by the presence of the Holy Spirit we have received.

God intends that we live a separated life, but it has much more to do with attitudes, spirit, deeds, etc, than it does a person's appearance, although I believe we are responsibile to practice modesty. When we won't even fellowship with other Pentecostals who don't share our personal convictions on standard issues that is isolation. Insulated Christians don't fear contamination from the world.

If this board is a reflection of the OPs in general then I believe my observation is correct regarding the preoccupation with outward standards of separation. How often have we seen a thread about what deeds of love OPs are doing in the name of Jesus Christ, which is given more emphasis in Scripture than outward adornments as a measure of one's spirituality?