MERRY MITHRA - Christmas is pagan.

[Monterrey]

Christmas is so absolutely pagan. How anyone calling themselves a Christian can celebrate the celebration of Sol Invictus is baffling to me.


No Biblical scholar, with a sincere desire for truth, can honestly say Christmas is not pagan.

In Revelation 2 we see a command not to eat meat sacrificed to idols. The problem was not the meat but where the meat came from.

Kinda like christ mass.

Pagan at its core.

[Monterrey]

Bwahahahahahaha

[diakonos]

I have celebrated the day by sleeping, most of it. I may just go back to sleep.

[TJJJ]

Good to see you are getting some good rest!

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

Good to see you are getting some good rest!

Yeah, sleeping 2-3 hours during the work week takes its toll.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Monterrey

Christmas is so absolutely pagan. How anyone calling themselves a Christian can celebrate the celebration of Sol Invictus is baffling to me.


No Biblical scholar, with a sincere desire for truth, can honestly say Christmas is not pagan.

In Revelation 2 we see a command not to eat meat sacrificed to idols. The problem was not the meat but where the meat came from.

Kinda like christ mass.

Pagan at its core.

Revelation 2 says not to eat meat sacrificed to idols. What does that have to do with having an annual celebration of Jesus' Birthday? I don’t know anyone making sacrifices for anything on December 25th. If you would like to make that point about meats sacrificed, what do the epistles teach us about what is sold in the shambles? I believe it says to ask no questions for conscience's sake. Why then are Christians trying to investigate and research pagan history?

I have never heard of Mithra until AFF, and that is 40 years of life in a Pentecostal denomination. I have heard refutations of Christmas trees, Santa Clause, etc. and I can understand why those things are controversial. However, celebrating the birth of Christ should be a good thing. How old is the tradition of Mithra’s birth on December 25th?

Over 1000 years ago a pagan religion celebrated on December 25th and suddenly we are condeming brethen for idolatry that have no knowledge on the subject, because something an encyclepedia article says or a youtube video they watched. It seems that people like casting stumbling blocks in their brothers' way. I think we have much bigger fish to fry.

[Monterrey]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Revelation 2 says not to eat meat sacrificed to idols. What does that have to do with having an annual celebration of Jesus' Birthday? I don’t know anyone making sacrifices for anything on December 25th. If you would like to make that point about meats sacrificed, what do the epistles teach us about what is sold in the shambles? I believe it says to ask no questions for conscience's sake. Why then are Christians trying to investigate and research pagan history?

I have never heard of Mithra until AFF, and that is 40 years of life in a Pentecostal denomination. I have heard refutations of Christmas trees, Santa Clause, etc. and I can understand why those things are controversial. However, celebrating the birth of Christ should be a good thing. How old is the tradition of Mithra’s birth on December 25th?

Over 1000 years ago a pagan religion celebrated on December 25th and suddenly we are condeming brethen for idolatry that have no knowledge on the subject, because something an encyclepedia article says or a youtube video they watched. It seems that people like casting stumbling blocks in their brothers' way. I think we have much bigger fish to fry.

Sorry it took me some time to respond, I hate trying to type on my phone.

Let me try to address some points that you brought up.

As far as you never having heard of Mithra, Sol Invictus and etc... that is not my problem. None of us knew anything until the first time we heard about it. Not trying to insult you but your ignorance is not my problem as my ignorance is not your problem. As a whole Pentecost is a very ignorant denomination or movement. Most Pentecostals are trained to not know anything but what their pastor teaches.

Next, my condemning my brother for their celebrating Christmas? C'mon, this site is for discussion and interaction. If you can't stand the heat then stay out of the kitchen. Nobody asked you to comment on this thread, I do appreciate your participation but you know the routine here. We are not novices on AFF.

As far as getting this from youtube or wikipedia? I have taught against Christmas for over 30 years, long before either of these sites were in existence. This conviction came about because of prayer and study. I was an assistant pastor in a group that loved this pagan holiday and God began to show me the error of that way. So this did not come from my fellowship group either.

Now, if you want to converse outside of feelings or assumptions... I'm your man!

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Monterrey

Christmas is so absolutely pagan. How anyone calling themselves a Christian can celebrate the celebration of Sol Invictus is baffling to me.


No Biblical scholar, with a sincere desire for truth, can honestly say Christmas is not pagan.

In Revelation 2 we see a command not to eat meat sacrificed to idols. The problem was not the meat but where the meat came from.

Kinda like christ mass.

Pagan at its core.

Can you provide an original source document originating prior to the first Christmas celebration that links the celebration of Sol Invictus to December 25?

[Monterrey]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Can you provide an original source document originating prior to the first Christmas celebration that links the celebration of Sol Invictus to December 25?

Well, I googled Sol Invictus, page after page showed up. That is probably easier than linking something here. You might try it.

Sol Invictus is an ancient ceremony that deals with the worship of the sun. This old worship goes as far back Biblically as the Exodus when God commanded the Israelites to not worship the heavens as the former inhabitants had done before them.

Deu 4:19 And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.

These were mentioned later on as the gods that the backslidden Israel worshipped in that they followed the gods of Syria.

Jdg 10:6 And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim, and Ashtaroth, and the gods of Syria, and the gods of Zidon, and the gods of Moab, and the gods of the children of Ammon, and the gods of the Philistines, and forsook the LORD, and served not him.

The gods of Syria were gods of the heavens, ie the storm god, the sun god and the moon and stars gods.

This was old paganism that was then taken to other peoples and nations. We see that the sun god was worshipped by many different nations like Ra of the Egyptians, Sol for the Norsemen, Helios for the Greeks, and etc and etc.

The worship of the Sun God for the Northern Hemisphere was what we would call Dec 21st or 22nd, the shortest day of the year for that hemisphere. The day was celebrated for the rebirth of the sun as it begins to restrengthen or revive. The day 25th was brought in because of the Roman calendar which had their 25th on our 21 or 22nd. This was later adopted and celebrated later on as the 25th.

Now, we have those who, either because of ignorance or tradition, desire to celebrate the birth of Christ on this day even though Christ was not born on this day but was born in late September or early Oct depending on the Lunar calendar.

What we do read about is that early Christianity chose to take the time of year and spend it in prayer and fasting to counteract the paganism that was prevalent in that time of the year. Christmas as Christian was not instituted for centuries after Christ, usually attributed to around 273 AD.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Monterrey

Well, I googled Sol Invictus, page after page showed up. That is probably easier than linking something here. You might try it.

Sol Invictus is an ancient ceremony that deals with the worship of the sun. This old worship goes as far back Biblically as the Exodus when God commanded the Israelites to not worship the heavens as the former inhabitants had done before them.

Deu 4:19 And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.

These were mentioned later on as the gods that the backslidden Israel worshipped in that they followed the gods of Syria.

Jdg 10:6 And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim, and Ashtaroth, and the gods of Syria, and the gods of Zidon, and the gods of Moab, and the gods of the children of Ammon, and the gods of the Philistines, and forsook the LORD, and served not him.

The gods of Syria were gods of the heavens, ie the storm god, the sun god and the moon and stars gods.

This was old paganism that was then taken to other peoples and nations. We see that the sun god was worshipped by many different nations like Ra of the Egyptians, Sol for the Norsemen, Helios for the Greeks, and etc and etc.

The worship of the Sun God for the Northern Hemisphere was what we would call Dec 21st or 22nd, the shortest day of the year for that hemisphere. The day was celebrated for the rebirth of the sun as it begins to restrengthen or revive. The day 25th was brought in because of the Roman calendar which had their 25th on our 21 or 22nd. This was later adopted and celebrated later on as the 25th.

Now, we have those who, either because of ignorance or tradition, desire to celebrate the birth of Christ on this day even though Christ was not born on this day but was born in late September or early Oct depending on the Lunar calendar.

What we do read about is that early Christianity chose to take the time of year and spend it in prayer and fasting to counteract the paganism that was prevalent in that time of the year. Christmas as Christian was not instituted for centuries after Christ, usually attributed to around 273 AD.

The earliest mention of a Christian Nativity of Christ holy day is from the Calendar of Philocalus, dated around 354 AD. And in fact, that calendar (created by a well to do Roman Christian) identified Dec 25th as the Nativity of Sol Invictus (a pagan holy feast day). The mention of Nativity of Christ as a holy day is vague and unconvincing to me, though it appears to ascribe Dec 25th as the day on which Christ was born, yet I can't find its reference to any Feast or celebration of Christ's Nativity.

Tertullian and other contemporaries made lists of Christian holy days but none of them ever mentioned Christmas. Thus showing that Christmas was at best a 4th century innovation, while also proving that Dec 25th was the Feast in celebration of the Birth of the Invicible Sun (Sol Invictus, Mithras, Helios, Baal, etc).