Should we still observe the sabbath?

[good samaritan]

I am a little rusty on the subject. I received a phone call today from someone that we must observe a Saturday sabbath. It disappointed him when I informed him that I didn’t feel that it is any longer necessary to keep any day as a Sabbath. Instead, we are to enter His rest, by the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

[Bro Flame]

I think we should observe a weekly sabbath. People get divided over whether it's Saturday or Sunday being the "real" sabbath, but I personally don't ride those bandwagons. We've always observed Sunday as our sabbath, and that's the day we go to church. When I first started working out of high school, I worked at a little department store that occasionally scheduled me to work Sundays. It wasn't my preference, but I hadn't any choice at the time. I had to work to help my father with my expenses of gas, car maintenance, and my intended preparations to go back to college. I only had said job for around three months, however, and I've been working in banks ever since. The worst you might have with working in banks is being in one of the larger cities that might make you rotate Saturdays.

[Scott Pitta]

Harry Morse was a Sabbath keeper. I never could discover the source for this influence in his life.

I am unaware of any other early Oneness California sabbath keeper.

Theologically speaking, there is no basis for believers to obey the sabbath.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I am a little rusty on the subject. I received a phone call today from someone that we must observe a Saturday sabbath. It disappointed him when I informed him that I didn’t feel that it is any longer necessary to keep any day as a Sabbath. Instead, we are to enter His rest, by the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

When did God say "Don't obey the Fourth Commandment"? Just curious.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Esaias

When did God say "Don't obey the Fourth Commandment"? Just curious.

I am not under the law to keep the Ten Commandments. We keep the Sabbath by its fulfillment of entering his rest. The Sabbath was created for us and not the other way around. Trying to make people again sinners because of their choice of which day they are off work and have church seems counterproductive to what Jesus came to do.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I am not under the law to keep the Ten Commandments.

So you can bow down to idols and take the Lord's name in vain without repercussions, then.

We keep the Sabbath by its fulfillment of entering his rest.

Where did God ever say that? Where does the Bible say "You obey the Fourth Commandment by "entering his rest"?

Also, if you aren't obligated to obey any of the 10 Commandments, then why do you "keep the Sabbath" (by "entering his rest") to begin with?

The Sabbath was created for us and not the other way around.

So that means we can ignore it? The woman was made for the man so the man can ignore the woman and be a sodomite? The fact the Sabbath was made for man means there isn't (and thus never was) any actual obligation to obey God's commandment regarding it? This makes no sense.

Trying to make people again sinners because of their choice of which day they are off work and have church seems counterproductive to what Jesus came to do.

Pointing out sin and calling for repentance is "trying to make people sinners" and "counterproductive to what Jesus came to do"? What strange religion is this?

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So you can bow down to idols and take the Lord's name in vain without repercussions, then

I wouldn’t do those things because I could not and be full of the Holy Ghost. I still am not under mosaic law.

Where did God ever say that? Where does the Bible say "You obey the Fourth Commandment by "entering his rest"?

Isaiah 28:11-12
For with stammering lips and another tongue
will he speak to this people.
To whom he said,
This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest;
and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

Hebrews 4:3-6
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

Also, if you aren't obligated to obey any of the 10 Commandments, then why do you "keep the Sabbath" (by "entering his rest") to begin with?

The observance of the Sabbath is not taught to the NT church, but only likened to the OT Sabbath. I enter his rest because that is what the apostles taught.

So that means we can ignore it? The woman was made for the man so the man can ignore the woman and be a sodomite? The fact the Sabbath was made for man means there is (and thus never was) any actual obligation to obey God's commandment regarding it? This makes no sense.

This scripture is the basis for all OT law:

Matthew 22:37-39
-- Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Although, we are not under the law, the Holy Spirit working in us is going to lead us to following after Gods righteousness. Since the law was given to Israel to reveal Gods righteousness explicitly to the people of Israel, much of the OT laws will be similar to what is taught in the NT and felt in our hearts. The Sabbath has importance by its fulfillment and also its principle.

Mark 2:27
And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

To prevent the overworking of servants and even the land, sabbaths (plural) where instituted. We still are obligated to not neglect the health and well being of others and our own bodies as well. So I. Other words we will give ourselves adequate rest and not abuse our fellow brethren. We no longer have to set a day to do that.

Pointing out sin and calling for repentance is "trying to make people sinners" and "counterproductive to what Jesus came to do"? What strange religion is this?

When you teach something that the NT apostles did not teach, it is actually worse than counterproductive.

Galatians 5:12-13
I would they were even cut off which trouble you.
For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

Romans 14:5-13
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

I don’t care if a person wants to stay home every Saturday and do nothing but pray and read their Bible. When you start teaching that people are in sin it is placing an offense in the way. What about that person with wife and children, who works mandatory Saturdays to make ends meat. Do you teach them to quit their job in order to leave that life of sin? That is going to be opposition to whether someone obeys the gospel. If you are right then preach on, but I am not of that persuasion.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I wouldn’t do those things because I could not and be full of the Holy Ghost. I still am not under mosaic law.

Why couldn't you be full of the Spirit while transgressing God's commandments? Guilty of one, guilty of all, right? Therefore if you can break one and be ok, you can break 'em all and be ok.

Isaiah 28:11-12
For with stammering lips and another tongue
will he speak to this people.
To whom he said,
This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest;
and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

No mention of the Sabbath being abolished or changed. Besides, the stammering lips and another tongue aren't the rest, it is the foreign invaders coming in as punishment for Israel's commandment breaking. He told the people about His rest, but they rejected His rest by breaking His covenant through willful disobedience. So He will speak to them through the foreigners because of their unbelief. Just like Paul explained in 1 Corinthians 14:21-22.

Hebrews 4:3-6
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

The passage teaches that God rested on the 7th day, and yet there is still a rest for His people to enter into. Further, the Exodus generation were prevented from entering that rest. Why? Because of their continued willful breaking of God's commandments, which was a sign of their unbelief. The ones who did not enter in were the adults 20 years old and up who came out of Egypt. God did not abolish the Fourth Commandment for the next generations, nor has He done so for us today.

You left off some verses:

Hebrews 4:7-9 KJV
Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. [8] For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. [9] There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

Verse 9 in Greek literally says "Sabbath keeping therefore remains to the people of God", by the way.

In any event, the whole passage isn't arguing for an abolition of the Fourth Commandment. Instead it is pointing out that disobedience is unbelief and prevents one from entering God's rest.

The observance of the Sabbath is not taught to the NT church, but only likened to the OT Sabbath. I enter his rest because that is what the apostles taught.

The apostles taught that commandment breaking is sin and not allowed to Christians. There is no rest for the lawless.

This scripture is the basis for all OT law:

Matthew 22:37-39
-- Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Although, we are not under the law, the Holy Spirit working in us is going to lead us to following after Gods righteousness.

Which means the true Christian will not be willfully breaking God's commandments but will actually perform the commandments:

Romans 8:3-4 KJV
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [4] That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

1 John 3:4-10 KJV
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. [5] And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. [6] Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. [7] Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. [8] He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. [9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. [10] In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Since the law was given to Israel to reveal Gods righteousness explicitly to the people of Israel, much of the OT laws will be similar to what is taught in the NT and felt in our hearts. The Sabbath has importance by its fulfillment and also its principle.

You can't "fulfill" a commandment by breaking it. The NT is not a repeal of God's laws with new legislation put in their place. It is the writing of God's laws in the heart and mind of His child, which produces a person whose life manifests God's righteousness because they actually obey from the heart what God has wanted His people to be doing.

Mark 2:27
And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Since your Father made the Sabbath for you, why would you reject it?

To prevent the overworking of servants and even the land, sabbaths (plural) where instituted. We still are obligated to not neglect the health and well being of others and our own bodies as well. So I. Other words we will give ourselves adequate rest and not abuse our fellow brethren. We no longer have to set a day to do that.

So God gives sabbaths to provide what is right and just, but Jesus came and freed us from such obligations? Now we just do as we feel right in our own eyes instead of what God says to do? Strange religion. Not for me, honestly.

When you teach something that the NT apostles did not teach, it is actually worse than counterproductive.

Yes, like teaching Christians it is okay to sin. Very bad, very sad, but many such cases.

Galatians 5:12-13
I would they were even cut off which trouble you.
For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

Liberty is not liberty to transgress and practice iniquity (lawlessness). Your argument is the same one used by people who claim gay relationships are ok for Christians.

Romans 14:5-13
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

No mention of the Sabbath. Instead, lots of talk about people's personal preferences about various days and vegetarianism vs omnivore diets. Paul isn't saying that the one who doesn't esteem what God esteems is allowed to do as they wilt, as if God's commandments are subject to our personal whims.

I don’t care if a person wants to stay home every Saturday and do nothing but pray and read their Bible. When you start teaching that people are in sin it is placing an offense in the way. What about that person with wife and children, who works mandatory Saturdays to make ends meat. Do you teach them to quit their job in order to leave that life of sin? That is going to be opposition to whether someone obeys the gospel. If you are right then preach on, but I am not of that persuasion.

Identifying sin is not putting an offense in anyone's way. This line of reasoning is ridiculous and soul destroying. What does it profit if you gain the world but lose your soul? If your right eye offends (causes you to sin), cut it off. Etc etc.

I noticed you didn't touch hide nor hair of the Scriptures I posted.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Isaiah 28:11-12
For with stammering lips and another tongue
will he speak to this people.
To whom he said,
This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest;
and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

A note about the verses quoted above:

The Hebrew word שַׁבָּת - shabbath is not found in Isaiah 28:11-12.

There are two Hebrew words translated "rest" in Isaiah 28:12.

The first is: מְנוּחָה menuchah.

The second is נוּחַ nuach.

It is therefore a mistake to insist this passage has anything to do with the Sabbath.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I am not under the law to keep the Ten Commandments. We keep the Sabbath by its fulfillment of entering his rest.

If you aren't required to keep the Ten Commandments and that's why you don't keep the Sabbath, then why do you keep the Sabbath "by its fulfillment of entering rest"? I believe I asked this earlier but didn't really notice an answer.

If it's not required, then why the insistence on fulfilling the requirement (by whatever method one thinks it is done)?

Q. Why don't you obey the commandment?
A. I don't obey it because I am not subject to the commandment. Plus I do obey it, just in a new way.

???? Wait, wut????

Either it's obligatory, or not. Either you obey it, or not. Makes no sense to say on one hand you don't because it isn't in force, and at the same on the other hand to say you do (just in some new fangled way).