Psychotropic Drugs in Religious Rituals

[Evang.Benincasa]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_drugs

Within ancient religions the use of drugs were to tap into the spiritual realm. Psychotropics hallucinogenic plants were only used in religious ceremonies. Some ancient civilizations guarded these herbs, fungi, and potions with strict laws. Prohibiting the use or handling by anyone other than the priest or priestess of the group. While some may come to give reasons for the benefits of these drugs, the truth is this, they open gateways to places where almighty God didn't intend us to go. Even the ancient Shaman would be agast, to see a people using these substances without their religious guidance. Yet, Christianity isn't a religion which uses the vehicle of the psychotropic hallucinogen. We pray, we reach out to God without the "shortcut" of the psychotropic hallucinogen. Which the shortcut doesn't take us to the God, but to a god, or gods which don't help us get better, but worse.

[Aquila]

While various substances might have medicinal benefits in relation to the body no earthly substance or medication can aid one spiritually. The idea that a substance can access spiritual realms is nothing but pagan superstition.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

While various substances might have medicinal benefits in relation to the body, no earthly substance or medication can aid one spiritually. That's nothing but pagan superstition.

There are no medicinal benefits to psychotropic hallucinogenic plants and fungi. Anyone suffering from any form of emotional issues. The same way Jesus can heal sickness, and disease. Deliver an drug addict or alcoholic. Jesus can heal what someone would resort to psychotropic hallucinogenic plants and fungi to heal. Medical marijuana is a bad aid on a bullet wound. Medical Marijuana stores is something everyone was looking forward to back in 1978. This isn't any Johnny come lately, this was already in the works. Drugs open doors to places that God never intended us to go.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

There are no medicinal benefits to psychotropic hallucinogenic plants and fungi.

Eh, that's your opinion. There are studies that disagree. As far as hallucinogenics, studies are showing that those with terminal conditions who suffer from excessive anxiety benefit from "shrooms". Apparently after taking "shrooms" subjects had a sense of resolution and peace about their impending death and return to their spiritual roots. Scientists are still researching the biochemical nature of this shift in their mental state.

Anyone suffering from any form of emotional issues.

While the source of emotion is still beyond the scope of science, we do know that emotions are effected by various biochemical processes in the brain.

The same way Jesus can heal sickness, and disease.

Jesus is a healer. But Jesus doesn't heal everyone all the time. Else, we'd never see believers in the hospital, taking chemo, or needing any form of treatments for things such as diabetes, etc. If Jesus healed 100% of the time, we'd put hospitals out of business.

Deliver an drug addict or alcoholic. Jesus can heal what someone would resort to psychotropic hallucinogenic plants and fungi to heal.

Amen. But let's not deny that both natural and synthetic substances have been used to heal what Jesus chooses not to miraculously heal.

Medical marijuana is a bad aid on a bullet wound. Medical Marijuana stores is something everyone was looking forward to back in 1978. This isn't any Johnny come lately, this was already in the works. Drugs open doors to places that God never intended us to go.

Superstition.

If God never intended cannabis to be used medicinally, why did God design the endocannabinoid system to specifically respond to cannabinoids found in cannabis?

Balms, salves, herbs, teas, and even incense, were used medicinally and therapeutically in biblical times. Those who understood how to make such things were known as apothecaries. No where does the Bible condemn their use unless associated with pagan deities and pagan worship.

In Genesis we read,

Genesis 1:11-12
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Every grass, herb, and tree was created by God, and God saw that it was good. Not a single plant was deemed as being sinful.

We also read,

Genesis 1:29
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

Here, God gives every plant upon all the face of the earth for man's consumption. No exceptions.

Now, this doesn't mean that various plants, or plant based substances, shouldn't be handled cautiously or judiciously. In addition, a plant shouldn't be considered sinful just because we don't currently know the beneficial purpose of the given plant or substance. Nor should it be considered sinful merely because we don't fully understand its effects. What is necessary is inquiry, examination, study, and research. There is a good possibility that as we speak, tomorrow's cure for cancer is currently residing in a prohibited plant or substance. Think of the untold numbers who have suffered and died because research on the medicinal qualities of a given substance was halted due to superstition. So, in my opinion, an open mind is necessary if we are to take God seriously about His creating plant life and finding it, good.

This also doesn't mean that self-control isn't necessary. We know that wine comes from fermented grapes. We know that wine was used to cleanse wounds, to ease the fears and pain of the dying, as a drink offering, and as an intoxicant to bring joy to the hearts of men in celebrations such as feast days and weddings. However, allowing one's life to slip into a state of drunkenness is indeed a sin.

The Bible calls for moderation concerning wine and strong drink. And so this principle would apply to any other intoxicant. Like wine, cannabis has been shown to have medicinal use. For example, it relieves symptoms relating to AIDS, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, chronic traumatic encephalopathy, Crohn’s disease, epilepsy or another seizure disorder, fibromyalgia, glaucoma, hepatitis C, inflammatory bowel disease, multiple sclerosis, pain that is either chronic and severe or intractable, Parkinson’s disease, positive status for HIV, PTSD, sickle cell anemia, spinal cord disease or injury, Tourette’s syndrome, traumatic brain injury, ulcerative colitis, or many others. And again, like wine, it has been used as an intoxicant.

Interestingly, one cannot overdose on cannabis. And so, it's safer than wine or strong drink. Also, aside from the "high" one gets upon initially taking cannabis in some forms, there have not yet been any significant negative side effects found (which is common in many powerful prescription medications).

So, I see room for disagreement, and room to allow individual conviction to govern the use of cannabis as it relates to medicine and health.

The superstitious paranoia about cannabis is actually more prevalent than the "paranoia" cannabis is often accused of producing. Also, when dealing with cannabis, there are many different strains of Sativa and Indica. If one strain produces an undesirable effect, another might be more fitting. In states where it is legal medical doctors and specialists in cannabis can assist any individual looking for the strain of cannabis that is right for themselves and their condition. No, cannabis isn't for everyone. But it has appeared to help thousands of not millions of people world wide (considering other nations wherein medical cannabis is legal).

Superstition is a terrible thing. It is fed by fear and ignorance. Many don't know it but there was a period of about 300 years wherein coffee was deemed an illegal substance. In Islamic countries the stimulating effect was seen as intoxicating and it was condemned. Eventually, this prohibition was lifted as coffee use spread in underground coffee shops. In Europe, Popes and kings condemned it as the "devil's drink" and it faced additional prohibition. Fake science was also employed to slander the bean. Eventually, however, coffee began being consumed in secret coffee shops and penny shops throughout Europe. Periodicals on the social dangers of coffee were common place. Women in England even wrote a periodical condemning coffee, blaming it for the destruction of families. People were arrested, killed, and even exiled over the sale and proliferation of coffee. However, as it became more prevalent throughout European society, royalty, and even clergy began drinking it. Soon, the prohibitions were lifted and the free sale and consumption of coffee flourished.

Does this brief history of coffee sound familiar? Of course it does. Due to men's ignorance and superstition we're doomed to repeat history over and over again in new contexts. I predict that in 30 to 40 years cannabis will have been legalized long enough that most Americans will look back at all the misinformation, incarceration, bloodshed, and billions of dollars spent to combat it... and think... "All of that over this plant?"

So, let's move beyond our fears and superstitions and allow open research and inquiry on cannabis. It's use in cancer research is actually astounding some scientists. Who knows... if we can get beyond the fear and ignorance regarding this, we might discover the cure for cancer.

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Eh, that's your opinion. There are studies that disagree. As far as hallucinogenics, studies are showing that those with terminal conditions who suffer from excessive anxiety benefit from "shrooms". Apparently after taking "shrooms" subjects had a sense of resolution and peace about their impending death and return to their spiritual roots. Scientists are still researching the biochemical nature of this shift in their mental state.

While the source of emotion is still beyond the scope of science, we do know that emotions are effected by various biochemical processes in the brain.

Jesus is a healer. But Jesus doesn't heal everyone all the time. Else, we'd never see believers in the hospital, taking chemo, or needing any form of treatments for things such as diabetes, etc. If Jesus healed 100% of the time, we'd put hospitals out of business.

Amen. But let's not deny that both natural and synthetic substances have been used to heal what Jesus chooses not to miraculously heal.

Superstition.

If God never intended cannabis to be used medicinally, why did God design the endocannabinoid system to specifically respond to cannabinoids found in cannabis?

Balms, salves, herbs, teas, and even incense, were used medicinally and therapeutically in biblical times. Those who understood how to make such things were known as apothecaries. No where does the Bible condemn their use unless associated with pagan deities and pagan worship.

In Genesis we read,

Genesis 1:11-12
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Every grass, herb, and tree was created by God, and God saw that it was good. Not a single plant was deemed as being sinful.

We also read,

Genesis 1:29
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

Here, God gives every plant upon all the face of the earth for man's consumption. No exceptions.

Now, this doesn't mean that various plants, or plant based substances, shouldn't be handled cautiously or judiciously. In addition, a plant shouldn't be considered sinful just because we don't currently know the beneficial purpose of the given plant or substance. Nor should it be considered sinful merely because we don't fully understand its effects. What is necessary is inquiry, examination, study, and research. There is a good possibility that as we speak, tomorrow's cure for cancer is currently residing in a prohibited plant or substance. Think of the untold numbers who have suffered and died because research on the medicinal qualities of a given substance was halted due to superstition. So, in my opinion, an open mind is necessary if we are to take God seriously about His creating plant life and finding it, good.

This also doesn't mean that self-control isn't necessary. We know that wine comes from fermented grapes. We know that wine was used to cleanse wounds, to ease the fears and pain of the dying, as a drink offering, and as an intoxicant to bring joy to the hearts of men in celebrations such as feast days and weddings. However, allowing one's life to slip into a state of drunkenness is indeed a sin.

The Bible calls for moderation concerning wine and strong drink. And so this principle would apply to any other intoxicant. Like wine, cannabis has been shown to have medicinal use. For example, it relieves symptoms relating to AIDS, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, chronic traumatic encephalopathy, Crohn’s disease, epilepsy or another seizure disorder, fibromyalgia, glaucoma, hepatitis C, inflammatory bowel disease, multiple sclerosis, pain that is either chronic and severe or intractable, Parkinson’s disease, positive status for HIV, PTSD, sickle cell anemia, spinal cord disease or injury, Tourette’s syndrome, traumatic brain injury, ulcerative colitis, or many others. And again, like wine, it has been used as an intoxicant.

Interestingly, one cannot overdose on cannabis. And so, it's safer than wine or strong drink. Also, aside from the "high" one gets upon initially taking cannabis in some forms, there have not yet been any significant negative side effects found (which is common in many powerful prescription medications).

So, I see room for disagreement, and room to allow individual conviction to govern the use of cannabis as it relates to medicine and health.

The superstitious paranoia about cannabis is actually more prevalent than the "paranoia" cannabis is often accused of producing. Also, when dealing with cannabis, there are many different strains of Sativa and Indica. If one strain produces an undesirable effect, another might be more fitting. In states where it is legal medical doctors and specialists in cannabis can assist any individual looking for the strain of cannabis that is right for themselves and their condition. No, cannabis isn't for everyone. But it has appeared to help thousands of not millions of people world wide (considering other nations wherein medical cannabis is legal).

Superstition is a terrible thing. It is fed by fear and ignorance. Many don't know it but there was a period of about 300 years wherein coffee was deemed an illegal substance. In Islamic countries the stimulating effect was seen as intoxicating and it was condemned. Eventually, this prohibition was lifted as coffee use spread in underground coffee shops. In Europe, Popes and kings condemned it as the "devil's drink" and it faced additional prohibition. Fake science was also employed to slander the bean. Eventually, however, coffee began being consumed in secret coffee shops and penny shops throughout Europe. Periodicals on the social dangers of coffee were common place. Women in England even wrote a periodical condemning coffee, blaming it for the destruction of families. People were arrested, killed, and even exiled over the sale and proliferation of coffee. However, as it became more prevalent throughout European society, royalty, and even clergy began drinking it. Soon, the prohibitions were lifted and the free sale and consumption of coffee flourished.

Does this brief history of coffee sound familiar? Of course it does. Due to men's ignorance and superstition we're doomed to repeat history over and over again in new contexts. I predict that in 30 to 40 years cannabis will have been legalized long enough that most Americans will look back at all the misinformation, incarceration, bloodshed, and billions of dollars spent to combat it... and think... "All of that over this plant?"

So, let's move beyond our fears and superstitions and allow open research and inquiry on cannabis. It's use in cancer research is actually astounding some scientists. Who knows... if we can get beyond the fear and ignorance regarding this, we might discover the cure for cancer.

So much bad information and psuedo-science in the above that it is laughable.
Or sad, as A represents a large portion of the thinking of society, today.
Now, go smoke some poison ivy and tell me about the trip you took.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

So much bad information and psuedo-science in the above that it is laughable.
Or sad, as A represents a large portion of the thinking of society, today.

Hmmm...

60 Peer-Reviewed Studies on Medical Marijuana
Medical Studies Involving Cannabis and Cannabis Extracts (1990 - 2014)

https://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/...ourceID=000884

Now, go smoke some poison ivy and tell me about the trip you took.

As I said in my post:

Now, this doesn't mean that various plants, or plant based substances, shouldn't be handled cautiously or judiciously.

Of course, this caused me to wonder... is there a medicinal use for poison ivy? I found a bit of information. The following as a good read...

Using Poison Ivy as a Medicine
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/larry...b_6149354.html

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Eh, that's your opinion.

No, that is fact. You see this is what is insane about holding a discussion with you. Is that you aren't honest. So, Opium is still used in medication today? The answer is yes. Opium is so addictive that the user will consume the substance until death. Oxycontin is an Opiate. I have dealt with people who have had addictions with everything from refer to crack. Have brothers and sisters who have been delivered in prayer meetings, in baptismals, in Bible studies from full blown highs. What I state about natural psychotropics, and synthesised psychotropic drugs isn't my opinion.

Originally Posted by Aquila

There are studies that disagree. As far as hallucinogenics, studies are showing that those with terminal conditions who suffer from excessive anxiety benefit from "shrooms". Apparently after taking "shrooms" subjects had a sense of resolution and peace about their impending death and return to their spiritual roots. Scientists are still researching the biochemical nature of this shift in their mental state.

Well, well, Chris didn't take you long to advocate shrooms. Right on. María Sabina would be proud. Mexican Indian Shamans used the magic mushrooms to bring their neophytes and devotees on mind altering spiritual journeys. Chris, you would partake in these treatments for your PTSD?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

While the source of emotion is still beyond the scope of science, we do know that emotions are effected by various biochemical processes in the brain.

Sorry, but you know as much about the way the human brain works, as you do about rebuilding a transmission on a 1961 XLCH. While one is simple, the other is infinitely complex. Yet, in your hands both would be just as hard to comprehend.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Jesus is a healer. But Jesus doesn't heal everyone all the time. Else, we'd never see believers in the hospital, taking chemo, or needing any form of treatments for things such as diabetes, etc. If Jesus healed 100% of the time, we'd put hospitals out of business.

NPR recently had a show discussing how chemo was akin to leeches. We are finding out that chemo is old antiquated method of treatment. As we do the research we find that treatments which we thought were good science are really dangerous. But were kept around because they make huge money.
Legalizing medical marijuana and LSD is basically the stepping stone for making those substances legal in other areas. We have people in our church who have refused chemo, went on it through prayer and are still alive. My own sister was killed by chemotherapy, as was said by her doctor, not me.
She was diagnosed with a super rare form of cancer which has like a 1% success rate. So, why even treat her? The chemotherapy made her weaker, sicker, 90 lbs of flesh and bones. They administered the chemo because of money availability. Brother in our church has an aneurysm, bleeding on the brain, the hospital gave him contrast dye that shut down his kidneys. The doctor walked into the hospital room while our church brother was on dialysis. The doctor turned to me and said that his kidneys will NEVER come back. Because they took such a bad hit, his words, not mine. I turned to the doctor, and told him that's a lie, Jesus will heal those kidneys. The doctor said that's no lie, that's a fact. I told the doctor we shall see. Church family prayed, and the church brother is 100% healed. Should I have smoked a dube with him? Should we split a tab of four way window pane? Should I have helped him snort some China White? In case Jesus didn't heal?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

No, that is fact.

No, it's only your opinion.

There is research on this. Look it up.

You see this is what is insane about holding a discussion with you. Is that you aren't honest.

Where did I lie? Pointing out that you're only selling your opinion?

So, Opium is still used in medication today? The answer is yes. Opium is so addictive that the user will consume the substance until death. Oxycontin is an Opiate. I have dealt with people who have had addictions with everything from refer to crack. Have brothers and sisters who have been delivered in prayer meetings, in baptismals, in Bible studies from full blown highs. What I state about natural psychotropics, and synthesised psychotropic drugs isn't my opinion.

I agree with you on the dangers of oxycontin and opiates. And yes, they are addictive. I'd never touch it. However, oxycontin is used to treat intense pain, and when used correctly, under a physician's guidance, things can and do go well for some.

Well, well, Chris didn't take you long to advocate shrooms. Right on. María Sabina would be proud. Mexican Indian Shamans used the magic mushrooms to bring their neophytes and devotees on mind altering spiritual journeys. Chris, you would partake in these treatments for your PTSD?

See, this is where you're lying and slandering again. I never advocated the use of shrooms. I only pointed out that there was indeed research on it.

When will you tell the truth, avoid slander, stay on topic, and just have a normal discussion? You're looking ridiculous.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Aquila

While various substances might have medicinal benefits in relation to the body no earthly substance or medication can aid one spiritually. The idea that a substance can access spiritual realms is nothing but pagan superstition.

Any drug that use that is made by Alchemy like Meth, PCP, pretty much any pharmaceutical drug is sorcery. The Word sorcery in the Greek is "pharmakeus" where do you think we get the word pharmacy from? And Revelations 21:8 tells you "the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and SORCERERS, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

They are a gate you are taking in sorcery in your body simple and plain. Nothing superstitious about it.