Evangelism in a Post Modern world

[TakingDominion]

Hi everybody,

Long time viewer, first time posting. Let me introduce my self (sorta). I'm a young(ish) preacher/evangelist from the Midwest. I grew up in Pentecost. Grateful that I cut my teeth on a church pew as they say. I attend a vibrant and strong Apostolic church. Some here would call it an ultracon church. We are part of the WPF, which I've heard stands for Will Preach for Free

In my local church, I've served in various ministries over the past 10-12 years. I've been a Sunday school teacher (6 years), youth pastor/leader (5 years), bus driver, outreach coordinator, service leader, usher and currently director of our ushering/hospitality department. I'm sold out on this Apostolic message. I love holiness, and I love evangelism even more. I have a deep desire to do something for God, and am blessed to feel a call of God on my life.

I wanted to give a little background, I guess just to validate myself. I appreciate the discussion that goes on, on AFF. I'm not coming to you all for life advice, that's what my Pastor is for. However, I'd like your views on the following.

Why does it seem like most Apostolic churches aren't growing?
Are church growth and outward holiness mutually exclusive?
Can churches innovate without "compromising" on ancient landmarks (dress standards, no TV, etc.)?
If you know of churches that are truly growing (new converts), what are they doing differently?

Thank you and God bless,

[Amanah]

I would recommend this church as an example of Apostolic Church Growth

http://palmbay.experiencefpc.com/

[Amanah]

I would also add that Jesus fed the masses
trained and sent out the 70
had constant fellowship with the 12
and had an inner circle of 3

there was a deepening of teaching, growth, and spirituality as the circle grew tighter and closer to Jesus at the center.

[n david]

• Why does it seem like most Apostolic churches aren't growing?

Because they're not. Most Apostolic churches I've visited in my metro area in the past 5-10 years are at the same general number they were last year or a few years previous. There have been a couple churches which numerically have seemed to have really grown, but those are due to transplants from other local churches and shouldn't be considered as actual church growth.

• Are church growth and outward holiness mutually exclusive?

I don't believe so. There's a market for everyone.

• Can churches innovate without "compromising" on ancient landmarks (dress standards, no TV, etc.)?

I don't agree with using the term "ancient landmarks" to describe extra-Biblical standards. TV isn't ancient. Dress standards aren't ancient. The pioneers of the modern Oneness Pentecostal movement would likely be banned from some platforms, due to their beards or their wives' jewelry. Why the need to innovate something which is unchanging? Sounds so business-like. (Which, ironically is what many churches have become. A business. And many, family-owned.)

• If you know of churches that are truly growing (new converts), what are they doing differently?

A friend of mine was telling me of how the church he attended was growing and outgrowing their facilities. Within two years they had moved to new facilities, then built additional space on to the new facilities to accommodate the growth. I asked him what they were doing. Matt Maddix's soul winning block parties were just starting to explode everywhere. But he said that wasn't it. I asked if his church did what another local church several miles from him did -- they pulled out of the UPC and relaxed their dress standards. Nope. Still part of the UPC and still believe in standards. What, then? He told me it wasn't any program or events they were doing. The church body gathered in prayer more than they had previously, and the Pastor did a unique thing with his Sunday sermons. Every sermon was tailored to presenting the Gospel. At the end of each sermon, the Pastor would present the plan of salvation and invite people to be baptized in the water and spirit. That was it. Sunday's message is simply the Gospel presented in various ways. It wasn't deep theology -- that comes with their midweek bible studies and small group studies -- it was just the simple message of the Gospel.

The few churches I know which have had people being baptized and receiving the Holy Ghost have some things in common:

Prayer - They have weekly prayer and pray in either a prayer room or the sanctuary before church begins. They are not standing around some lobby café drinking coffee and eating donuts until they hear the music start and a minister greet the congregation. They also aren't walking around in the sanctuary, talking about football games or the latest round of golf. They come with a single mind to praise and worship God. Fellowship comes after the service is over.

Message - Each sermon presents the Gospel in a simple message. After each message, a call is given for people to respond to the Gospel. I was a part of a church for years here and it bothered me how rare people were baptized and received the HG there. The church was UPC, believed in standards and was a friendly church, yet it was dry as a bone. I went to a church which wasn't UPC and didn't have the strict standards, but which still believed and preached Oneness and Acts 2:38. I visited there several weeks in a row. Each week, the Pastor ended his sermon telling people they needed to repent, be baptized in Jesus Name and receive the Holy Ghost. Each week, there were a few people who were baptized and filled with the HG. In those few weeks of visiting this church, I saw more people baptized and filled with the HG than I did in several years with the other church. One week, the sermon hadn't been preached yet when the Pastor interrupted the worship music and said God wanted to set someone free, that they needed to be baptized and filled with the HG, come to the front right now. A man RAN down to the front, was taken to the back, baptized and received the HG before the song was finished.

Outreach/Visitation - Each church I know which has experienced growth has people dedicated to going out into the street to pray and speak with people they meet. Parks, the sidewalk in front of the church, neighborhoods. The church I just mentioned above --- they put a tent up in their parking lot, which is on a major side road, with signs offering prayer and a bible study. They even brought out a metal tank to baptize people who wanted to be baptized right then. They stayed out for 3 or 4 hours, gave several bible studies, prayed for people and, IIRC, one or two people were baptized.

IMO, it takes more work for a church to be dead and stagnant than it does for it to be lively and growing. Unfortunately, there are a lot of hard workers in churches today.

[Amanah]

this is it! this is that which my heart is stirred by

Originally Posted by n david

The few churches I know which have had people being baptized and receiving the Holy Ghost have some things in common:

Prayer - They have weekly prayer and pray in either a prayer room or the sanctuary before church begins. They are not standing around some lobby café drinking coffee and eating donuts until they hear the music start and a minister greet the congregation. They also aren't walking around in the sanctuary, talking about football games or the latest round of golf. They come with a single mind to praise and worship God. Fellowship comes after the service is over.

Message - Each sermon presents the Gospel in a simple message. After each message, a call is given for people to respond to the Gospel. I was a part of a church for years here and it bothered me how rare people were baptized and received the HG there. The church was UPC, believed in standards and was a friendly church, yet it was dry as a bone. I went to a church which wasn't UPC and didn't have the strict standards, but which still believed and preached Oneness and Acts 2:38. I visited there several weeks in a row. Each week, the Pastor ended his sermon telling people they needed to repent, be baptized in Jesus Name and receive the Holy Ghost. Each week, there were a few people who were baptized and filled with the HG. In those few weeks of visiting this church, I saw more people baptized and filled with the HG than I did in several years with the other church. One week, the sermon hadn't been preached yet when the Pastor interrupted the worship music and said God wanted to set someone free, that they needed to be baptized and filled with the HG, come to the front right now. A man RAN down to the front, was taken to the back, baptized and received the HG before the song was finished.

Outreach/Visitation - Each church I know which has experienced growth has people dedicated to going out into the street to pray and speak with people they meet. Parks, the sidewalk in front of the church, neighborhoods. The church I just mentioned above --- they put a tent up in their parking lot, which is on a major side road, with signs offering prayer and a bible study. They even brought out a metal tank to baptize people who wanted to be baptized right then. They stayed out for 3 or 4 hours, gave several bible studies, prayed for people and, IIRC, one or two people were baptized.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by n david

• Why does it seem like most Apostolic churches aren't growing?

Because they're not. Most Apostolic churches I've visited in my metro area in the past 5-10 years are at the same general number they were last year or a few years previous. There have been a couple churches which numerically have seemed to have really grown, but those are due to transplants from other local churches and shouldn't be considered as actual church growth.

• Are church growth and outward holiness mutually exclusive?

I don't believe so. There's a market for everyone.

• Can churches innovate without "compromising" on ancient landmarks (dress standards, no TV, etc.)?

I don't agree with using the term "ancient landmarks" to describe extra-Biblical standards. TV isn't ancient. Dress standards aren't ancient. The pioneers of the modern Oneness Pentecostal movement would likely be banned from some platforms, due to their beards or their wives' jewelry. Why the need to innovate something which is unchanging? Sounds so business-like. (Which, ironically is what many churches have become. A business. And many, family-owned.)

• If you know of churches that are truly growing (new converts), what are they doing differently?

A friend of mine was telling me of how the church he attended was growing and outgrowing their facilities. Within two years they had moved to new facilities, then built additional space on to the new facilities to accommodate the growth. I asked him what they were doing. Matt Maddix's soul winning block parties were just starting to explode everywhere. But he said that wasn't it. I asked if his church did what another local church several miles from him did -- they pulled out of the UPC and relaxed their dress standards. Nope. Still part of the UPC and still believe in standards. What, then? He told me it wasn't any program or events they were doing. The church body gathered in prayer more than they had previously, and the Pastor did a unique thing with his Sunday sermons. Every sermon was tailored to presenting the Gospel. At the end of each sermon, the Pastor would present the plan of salvation and invite people to be baptized in the water and spirit. That was it. Sunday's message is simply the Gospel presented in various ways. It wasn't deep theology -- that comes with their midweek bible studies and small group studies -- it was just the simple message of the Gospel.

The few churches I know which have had people being baptized and receiving the Holy Ghost have some things in common:

Prayer - They have weekly prayer and pray in either a prayer room or the sanctuary before church begins. They are not standing around some lobby café drinking coffee and eating donuts until they hear the music start and a minister greet the congregation. They also aren't walking around in the sanctuary, talking about football games or the latest round of golf. They come with a single mind to praise and worship God. Fellowship comes after the service is over.

Message - Each sermon presents the Gospel in a simple message. After each message, a call is given for people to respond to the Gospel. I was a part of a church for years here and it bothered me how rare people were baptized and received the HG there. The church was UPC, believed in standards and was a friendly church, yet it was dry as a bone. I went to a church which wasn't UPC and didn't have the strict standards, but which still believed and preached Oneness and Acts 2:38. I visited there several weeks in a row. Each week, the Pastor ended his sermon telling people they needed to repent, be baptized in Jesus Name and receive the Holy Ghost. Each week, there were a few people who were baptized and filled with the HG. In those few weeks of visiting this church, I saw more people baptized and filled with the HG than I did in several years with the other church. One week, the sermon hadn't been preached yet when the Pastor interrupted the worship music and said God wanted to set someone free, that they needed to be baptized and filled with the HG, come to the front right now. A man RAN down to the front, was taken to the back, baptized and received the HG before the song was finished.

Outreach/Visitation - Each church I know which has experienced growth has people dedicated to going out into the street to pray and speak with people they meet. Parks, the sidewalk in front of the church, neighborhoods. The church I just mentioned above --- they put a tent up in their parking lot, which is on a major side road, with signs offering prayer and a bible study. They even brought out a metal tank to baptize people who wanted to be baptized right then. They stayed out for 3 or 4 hours, gave several bible studies, prayed for people and, IIRC, one or two people were baptized.

IMO, it takes more work for a church to be dead and stagnant than it does for it to be lively and growing. Unfortunately, there are a lot of hard workers in churches today.

[Monterrey]

Originally Posted by TakingDominion

Hi everybody,

Long time viewer, first time posting. Let me introduce my self (sorta). I'm a young(ish) preacher/evangelist from the Midwest. I grew up in Pentecost. Grateful that I cut my teeth on a church pew as they say. I attend a vibrant and strong Apostolic church. Some here would call it an ultracon church. We are part of the WPF, which I've heard stands for Will Preach for Free

In my local church, I've served in various ministries over the past 10-12 years. I've been a Sunday school teacher (6 years), youth pastor/leader (5 years), bus driver, outreach coordinator, service leader, usher and currently director of our ushering/hospitality department. I'm sold out on this Apostolic message. I love holiness, and I love evangelism even more. I have a deep desire to do something for God, and am blessed to feel a call of God on my life.

I wanted to give a little background, I guess just to validate myself. I appreciate the discussion that goes on, on AFF. I'm not coming to you all for life advice, that's what my Pastor is for. However, I'd like your views on the following.

Why does it seem like most Apostolic churches aren't growing?
Are church growth and outward holiness mutually exclusive?
Can churches innovate without "compromising" on ancient landmarks (dress standards, no TV, etc.)?
If you know of churches that are truly growing (new converts), what are they doing differently?

Thank you and God bless,

hmmmm

Youngish yet involved in all those ministries for that long? Preachers kid!

Glad you are here but I thought the WWPF was against this forum?

Just wondering.

Welcome

[Monterrey]

Have you ever studied other denominations to find out why and how they grow? Not purpose driven drivel but others?

Most grow internally. They raise their kids in it and their kids have more kids and they grow.

Most so called church growth programs either UPC or WPF are based upon proselyting.

Usually against each other unfortunately.

They don't want to take the time to grow a church but want to "help their neighbors saints" be saved.

It takes time to build a congregation. Marry a few and bury a few.

[votivesoul]

Post-modernism is really the result of secular, often higher, education and related industries.

The person fully immersed into a post-modern worldview isn't going to come out of that slant without persistent prayer and intercession, with fasting.

However, with that being said, the people who can most easily be reached with the gospel are typically the people no one in the church wants: the addicted, the criminal, the drunkard, the bully, the whore, the gambler, and etc.

These are broken people who usually know they are broken, and have no hope in life of seeing a brighter day. Bringing Jesus to these people, since nothing else in life has ever worked for them, makes all the difference.

The question then is, who are we targeting in our evangelistic strategies?

For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called...

I know a lady who was instantaneously delivered from severe alcoholism the moment she received the Holy Spirit. I know former gangsters and fornicators and homosexuals and mentally ill and others at the end of their rope folks who were grabbed up by the Lord and brought into His Kingdom, and now, serve Him with their whole heart, joyfully, because they remember from whence they came.

He or she that is forgiven of much loves much.

The post-modernist has a really hard time believing that they have need of divine forgiveness from God. Consequentially, they don't overly love much of anything, except their own worldly lusts and pursuits.

Though the Lord died for all, He was specifically anointed by the Holy Spirit to preach the Gospel to a select group of people: the poor, the broken-hearted, the blind, the imprisoned, and etc.

Revival will always be found there, if going there to see it happen wasn't such a "hardship" for the saints.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Post-modernism is really the result of secular, often higher, education and related industries.

The person fully immersed into a post-modern worldview isn't going to come out of that slant without persistent prayer and intercession, with fasting.

However, with that being said, the people who can most easily be reached with the gospel are typically the people no one in the church wants: the addicted, the criminal, the drunkard, the bully, the whore, the gambler, and etc.

These are broken people who usually know they are broken, and have no hope in life of seeing a brighter day. Bringing Jesus to these people, since nothing else in life has ever worked for them, makes all the difference.

The question then is, who are we targeting in our evangelistic strategies?



I know a lady who was instantaneously delivered from severe alcoholism the moment she received the Holy Spirit. I know former gangsters and fornicators and homosexuals and mentally ill and others at the end of their rope folks who were grabbed up by the Lord and brought into His Kingdom, and now, serve Him with their whole heart, joyfully, because they remember from whence they came.

He or she that is forgiven of much loves much.

The post-modernist has a really hard time believing that they have need of divine forgiveness from God. Consequentially, they don't overly love much of anything, except their own worldly lusts and pursuits.

Though the Lord died for all, He was specifically anointed by the Holy Spirit to preach the Gospel to a select group of people: the poor, the broken-hearted, the blind, the imprisoned, and etc.

Revival will always be found there, if going there to see it happen wasn't such a "hardship" for the saints.

So true. The people who are most willing to receive the gospel are the ones who need the most help as babes in Christ, and for others to be willing to take the gospel to where they are, does sum up too much work for most Christians to be willing to do.

If Jesus were to walk among us in flesh and blood today, I wonder what tables he would upset, and what terror and horror He would cause in the hearts of most Christians, upsetting traditions, and styles and comfortable places.

You have given me much to ponder.