McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamation

[Pilgram199]

Pray for the church in McMinnville Oregon.


http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-no...ccused_in.html

[n david]

Pastors have to be very careful what they say in front of the congregation these days. The days of publicly admonishing someone are in the past.

IMO, Pastors and churches should be protected from lawsuits like this.

[Pilgram199]

I think the bigger issue is the Pastor & his son's violation of child labor laws in their business. Shows a lack of ethics IMO

[Holy Ghost HH]

The two problems in this situation in my opinion are;
1. The lack of ethics. Cheating children out of wages. Pay a man worthy of his hire. So this also leads into a business not paying the taxes both federal and state as required. ( Ie employees with holdings and social security tax), also workmans comp. insurance. So this is greed plane and simple.

2. The brother wasn't admonished; all of his and his wife's personal counseling information was put out for all to hear. When you admonish you do it with love. When you are led by he flesh and the devil you want to hurt personally, and socially. Also, with a spirit of humility you give a chance for the brother and wife to come back if asked. As for law suits being brought; not a single person reading this would not sue if your Dr. of Psych. stood up in front of all your friends and said you had some STD or mental problem. So don't justify any pastor blasting someone for doing the right thing.

If this churches pastors had done nothing wrong then all is good. But they where using children to profit. Can you justify that? Or is it because it is this group of preachers who hold themselves above a lot of great men Of God because of standards? This whole sad affair will bring this church down. It used to be different but something has changed.
Oh and what about praying for the brother that got kicked out? Or do we not care about him and his wife?

[Servant's <3]

I have no idea who either of you two new guys are... and I don't intend to defend either party.
That being said both families/men should be ashamed of their conduct.

Firstly, the pastor should not have used his position in a capacity that could earn him money for a business at the expense of anyone, especially children. He was completely wrong in doing so. That's not to say teenagers should not do things for the church but not in a labor-capacity. If anything, something small and only in a service to the church directly.

I have no idea all of the events that transpired, but when he did that surely they went to him first to hopefully correct the error. If he refused or was unwilling to hear his brother then he should have gotten 2 or 3 others as laid out in the bible for correction. If he further will not hear get a Presbyter involved. (I don't know the setup in Oregon clearly)

Secondly, the pastor should not have called the man out in front of everyone. This is just further wrongs committed. There are things that it really is not the business of the whole congregation and both parties should try to keep their heads and not go tale bearing to everyone. Things should be handled with as few people as possible unless some people are seeking guidance on how to handle a situation.

Thirdly, the man should not have sued the pastor. I am not saying the pastor did correctly. I am saying inside the faith a man should not go about suing another man inside the same faith especially.... it makes all involved look even worse.... it causes further damage to relationships.... and it hurts the faith itself... more than likely this will only cause those outside the church who desire to do damage to the church to feel justified in doing something politically minded that will damage us all.

I am in no way saying that the pastor should not be censured... but I feel it should be done in a better manner.

Regardless of compensation being made or not FORGIVENESS is necessary from both parties. Especially at this point. We HAVE to forgive one another. We cannot be the example to the world we are supposed to be if we do not from our hearts forgive one another our trespasses. And I'm not talking about wishy washy feel good forgiveness. I mean the forgiveness that is based in God's unfailing, unending love. Forgiveness in the same manner that God has forgiven us. Love and compassion is the ONLY thing that will reconcile this situation. No amount of money in judgement or censure will repair this relationship. Only forgiveness in love will.

Forgiveness means laying down our desire for vengeance or recompense. It means laying aside our own feelings of betrayal. It also means apologizing (in this case publicly). It is not about who is right and who is wrong.... true love and forgiveness is not caring about that especially considering both parties have done some wrong. It is about humbling ourselves and desiring reconciliation with our brother...

Pride and Greed have clearly come into this situation. As well as a wounded heart.

I will pray God's mercy for all involved and that he would move in the hearts of everyone to be compassionate to one another.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Servant's <3

Thirdly, the man should not have sued the pastor. I am not saying the pastor did correctly. I am saying inside the faith a man should not go about suing another man inside the same faith especially.... .

Same faith? He was excommunicated and then slandered. You know how that stuff works? Pastor and saints tell their friends and so on and so on so that he can never attend another Oneness church because of the lies told...I say sue the man, because surely he is either not praying or not listening to God.

Who knows...maybe this is how God chose to deal with him

[n david]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Same faith? He was excommunicated and then slandered. You know how that stuff works? Pastor and saints tell their friends and so on and so on so that he can never attend another Oneness church because of the lies told...I say sue the man, because surely he is either not praying or not listening to God.

Who knows...maybe this is how God chose to deal with him

You're assuming the accusations against the Pastor are true. How do you know he slandered him; Because the accuser or his friend says the Pastor did? Again there are three sides to every story, each opposing side and the truth. No evidence has been presented, so how do you already know the Pastor slandered the accuser?

It could be there was good reason the accuser was excommunicated from the church.

My father had to excommunicate someone from the church he pastored. It was a man and his family who moved from out of state. They had recently resigned from pastoring a church a few states away and was looking to just be part of a church body. A few months after they moved, people started coming to my father, saying the man was trying to counsel people against my father. The man would take any disagreement he had with my father's message or direction for the church and would tell people how he'd do it if he were the pastor.

My father was disappointed to do it, but he sent him out. Then he told the people if anyone wanted to join the man, they were free to leave; however, if they chose to stay, there was to be no contact or fellowship with the man and his family.

IMO, a believer should never sue another believer. For any reason. The bible is quite clear against it.

Not only did Paul speak against it, but Jesus warned against this kind of action. In the parable of the man who was forgiven a debt he never could have repaid, this man turns around and throws a man who owed him barely anything into prison. When the lord heard about this, he brought back the man and delivered him to the tormentors 'til he could pay the debt in full. Jesus closed the parable with a warning: "So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses."

IIRC, I read the accuser has been in the church for a while. God forgave the accuser all his sins and trespasses. But should he now take the role of the unforgiving servant and sue another believer -- Jesus said, not me, that all his sins and trespasses will be put back on him.

[Pilgram199]

Originally Posted by Servant's <3

I have no idea who either of you two new guys are... and I don't intend to defend either party.
That being said both families/men should be ashamed of their conduct.

Firstly, the pastor should not have used his position in a capacity that could earn him money for a business at the expense of anyone, especially children. He was completely wrong in doing so. That's not to say teenagers should not do things for the church but not in a labor-capacity. If anything, something small and only in a service to the church directly.

I have no idea all of the events that transpired, but when he did that surely they went to him first to hopefully correct the error. If he refused or was unwilling to hear his brother then he should have gotten 2 or 3 others as laid out in the bible for correction. If he further will not hear get a Presbyter involved. (I don't know the setup in Oregon clearly)

Secondly, the pastor should not have called the man out in front of everyone. This is just further wrongs committed. There are things that it really is not the business of the whole congregation and both parties should try to keep their heads and not go tale bearing to everyone. Things should be handled with as few people as possible unless some people are seeking guidance on how to handle a situation.

Thirdly, the man should not have sued the pastor. I am not saying the pastor did correctly. I am saying inside the faith a man should not go about suing another man inside the same faith especially.... it makes all involved look even worse.... it causes further damage to relationships.... and it hurts the faith itself... more than likely this will only cause those outside the church who desire to do damage to the church to feel justified in doing something politically minded that will damage us all.

I am in no way saying that the pastor should not be censured... but I feel it should be done in a better manner.

Regardless of compensation being made or not FORGIVENESS is necessary from both parties. Especially at this point. We HAVE to forgive one another. We cannot be the example to the world we are supposed to be if we do not from our hearts forgive one another our trespasses. And I'm not talking about wishy washy feel good forgiveness. I mean the forgiveness that is based in God's unfailing, unending love. Forgiveness in the same manner that God has forgiven us. Love and compassion is the ONLY thing that will reconcile this situation. No amount of money in judgement or censure will repair this relationship. Only forgiveness in love will.

Forgiveness means laying down our desire for vengeance or recompense. It means laying aside our own feelings of betrayal. It also means apologizing (in this case publicly). It is not about who is right and who is wrong.... true love and forgiveness is not caring about that especially considering both parties have done some wrong. It is about humbling ourselves and desiring reconciliation with our brother...

Pride and Greed have clearly come into this situation. As well as a wounded heart.

I will pray God's mercy for all involved and that he would move in the hearts of everyone to be compassionate to one another.

This is probably the most logical and thoughtful response to the very ugly issue.

[LongBeachCA]

Originally Posted by Servant's <3

I have no idea who either of you two new guys are... and I don't intend to defend either party.
That being said both families/men should be ashamed of their conduct.

Firstly, the pastor should not have used his position in a capacity that could earn him money for a business at the expense of anyone, especially children. He was completely wrong in doing so. That's not to say teenagers should not do things for the church but not in a labor-capacity. If anything, something small and only in a service to the church directly.

I have no idea all of the events that transpired, but when he did that surely they went to him first to hopefully correct the error. If he refused or was unwilling to hear his brother then he should have gotten 2 or 3 others as laid out in the bible for correction. If he further will not hear get a Presbyter involved. (I don't know the setup in Oregon clearly)

Secondly, the pastor should not have called the man out in front of everyone. This is just further wrongs committed. There are things that it really is not the business of the whole congregation and both parties should try to keep their heads and not go tale bearing to everyone. Things should be handled with as few people as possible unless some people are seeking guidance on how to handle a situation.

Thirdly, the man should not have sued the pastor. I am not saying the pastor did correctly. I am saying inside the faith a man should not go about suing another man inside the same faith especially.... it makes all involved look even worse.... it causes further damage to relationships.... and it hurts the faith itself... more than likely this will only cause those outside the church who desire to do damage to the church to feel justified in doing something politically minded that will damage us all.

I am in no way saying that the pastor should not be censured... but I feel it should be done in a better manner.

Regardless of compensation being made or not FORGIVENESS is necessary from both parties. Especially at this point. We HAVE to forgive one another. We cannot be the example to the world we are supposed to be if we do not from our hearts forgive one another our trespasses. And I'm not talking about wishy washy feel good forgiveness. I mean the forgiveness that is based in God's unfailing, unending love. Forgiveness in the same manner that God has forgiven us. Love and compassion is the ONLY thing that will reconcile this situation. No amount of money in judgement or censure will repair this relationship. Only forgiveness in love will.

Forgiveness means laying down our desire for vengeance or recompense. It means laying aside our own feelings of betrayal. It also means apologizing (in this case publicly). It is not about who is right and who is wrong.... true love and forgiveness is not caring about that especially considering both parties have done some wrong. It is about humbling ourselves and desiring reconciliation with our brother...

Pride and Greed have clearly come into this situation. As well as a wounded heart.

I will pray God's mercy for all involved and that he would move in the hearts of everyone to be compassionate to one another.

You are way out of line with your comments about LAW SUITS and saying that the SAINT should not sue the PASTOR. WTH................so what kind of CRIME does a pastor have to commit before you will say it's ok or not ok to seek legal help and sue a PASTOR? You have really Lost your Mind. What about OBEYING THE LAWS OF THE LAND????
If a pastor breaks the law then he is putting himself in a position to be sued.

[Servant's <3]

Old post revival much?

Out of line? I was giving an opinion.


1 Corinthians 6

"1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.

7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?

8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren."

How else do you "interpret" this?