Women be quiet?

mizpeh · #1 10-25-2014, 03:57 PM

Is this passage talking about women being quiet in the church or at home?

1 Timothy 2:11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.

Sean · #2 10-25-2014, 04:02 PM

In church

Abiding Now · #3 10-25-2014, 05:44 PM

This is probably one of the biggest problems that the church has been "working on" for centuries, how to get a woman to be quiet at home or church. As soon as this problem is solved Jesus is coming back.

J/K!!!

Esaias · #4 10-25-2014, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Is this passage talking about women being quiet in the church or at home?

1 Timothy 2:11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.

I believe it primarily has to do with in the assembly however there is a wider general application as it speaks to general relationship between the man and the woman.

The NT is rather clear that teaching and leadership roles in the church are not to be assumed by women.

Rudy · #5 10-25-2014, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Is this passage talking about women being quiet in the church or at home?

1 Timothy 2:11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.

Meetings were held for the most part back then in homes. Order was being addressed here.

Define what a prophetess does and you will know that a woman is allowed to speak in meetings.

It's the same liberty that a male prophet has. They speak for the most high.

Acts 21:8-9
On the next day we who were Paul's companions departed and came to Caesarea, and entered the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, and stayed with him. Now this man had four virgin daughters who prophesied.

King James Bible
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Michael The Disciple · #6 10-25-2014, 06:37 PM

Three levels of this.

On one level women are not to hold leadership positions.

Another level women may pray and prophesy (partake in body ministry) during the gathering if they cover their heards.

Another level they are to be silent in contrast to asking questions or idle talk in the meeting.

Esaias · #7 10-26-2014, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Three levels of this.

On one level women are not to hold leadership positions.

Another level women may pray and prophesy (partake in body ministry) during the gathering if they cover their heards.

Another level they are to be silent in contrast to asking questions or idle talk in the meeting.

1Cor 14 says women are not permitted to speak in the assembly. This was in the context of "body ministry" was it not? Does it not seem then that Paul taught women to be silent during the meeting? Has it not been taught "women may prophesy but not in the meeting"?

I'm just trying to understand because the praying or prophesying part is not necessarily in an assembly context but the silence part is...

Esaias · #8 10-27-2014, 11:28 PM

I think the reference in 1Tim is to women not asking questions in the assembly. The woman is to learn in silence. This to me implies the assembly. The other reference speaks of a woman asking her husband at home, which supports the idea the woman is not question a teacher during the assembly.

People often project their own modern church experiences onto the bible assuming a NT meeting looks the same as a modern bapto-pentecostal-evangelical church service with its lecture format and theater seating arrangement.

The early church met in homes and teaching involved q and a. Teaching was more of a dialogue than a lecture. This format was familiar to Jews via the synagogue and rabbinic methods of teaching, and familiar (somewhat) to Greeks via the way philosophers taught as well as the method of conducting a symposium. (The symposium was a dinner party which included a discussion and dialogue on some subject after supper. Of course many pagan symposia were characterized by debauchery and wild extravagance but the basic idea of an interactive teaching dialogue was common.)

mizpeh · #9 10-25-2014, 10:25 PM

Why do you think it is in the church and not the home? What in the context makes you think that?

Abiding Now · #10 10-25-2014, 10:41 PM

1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

1Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.